The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

Returning to EV’s

Mike Hawes of the SMMT reckons that just 10% of private buyers bought EV in 2023

While only 16% of ALL sales were EV.

2024 is the year that manufacturers will start to be fined by the EU and UK if they fail to achieve 22% of all sales as EV. (That’s a fine of up to £15k for each ICE vehicle sold above the 78% cap on ICE unit sales)

(But bear in mind that there are some cheat workarounds)

Hawes thinks that the Government should reduce the VAT on EV car sales to get more take up. His logic being that the Government is already getting more revenue because all vehicle prices have risen compared to five or ten years ago.

Good luck with that ambition, matey. (Governments don’t give up tax revenue lightly.)

 

[clk320x]

But then LiFePO4 batteries have lower energy density, higher cost, and limited availability compared to Lithium-ion batteries and can still go into thermal runaway.

LFP can be regularly charged to 100% and are cobalt free… (another regular criticism from people is that cobalt mines are unethical - ironically posting said message from their battery operated device)

 

[clk320x]

Forgive me but you seem rather sensitive on the EV subject to the point of believing any discussion on the topic is automatically some kind of insult. If you have no worries then why on earth are you bothered about this video from a worldwide leading expert on lithium batteries? This is a buildings safety research conference presentation on the fire risk to buildings from lithium batteries, where experts share their research data and opinions... If you watch it you'll see most of the talk is not about EVs: please see my thumbnail for more information

My take home message was not don't buy an EV (although it does give food for thought especially leaving kids or pets in one) it was don't charge my electric bike inside when I'm not in

I don’t have anything against your posts, they are informative & unlike some you have a balanced view on the matter.

I think the issue here is that yes at the moment lithium-ion fires are hard to control, but the actual risk of them catching fire in the first place is far lower than ICE cars. The newer LFP batteries are also a lot easier to control fire wise (on the minuscule chance something like that happens) and that’s what new EVs use.

 

[clk320x]

The question would be “Precisely which EV Battery types?”. We all know Li-Ion types are difficult to handle. Same as for such equipped appliances (Samsung phones scandal anyone?). But EV batteries are evolving. LFP not such a problem, Solid State simply don’t! Other currently exotic battery materials don’t either.

And then there’s the statistical likelihood of an EV battery fire remain minuscule in comparison to ICE. But that’s just whataboutery

Before ICE it was a fact that Horses didn’t catch fire! Just thought I’d mention seeing as we’re talking about transportation fires

 

[philnewmerc]

So mine’s 385 bhp.
Talk me through the numbers

in your case you could save "up to 20%" (or 0.001%, but we won't go into that)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

in your case you could save "up to 20%" (or 0.001%, but we won't go into that)

Quite !

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Whilst cars are capable of producing much more power, they produce very little in normal operation. For example, maintaining a speed of 30 mph in a CLS 55 AMG require 9.7 PS, nowhere near it’s maximum.

If the AC compressor consumes 2 PS then the engine must produce 11.7 PS to overcome both Running Resistance and drive the AC, which means the compressor accounts for around 17% of the requirement.

That doesn’t mean that it accounts for 17% of fuel consumed, and of course the AC compressor may consume less than 2 PS, however the proportion of the load (when in operation) is more than suggested in this thread.

 

[Noitz]

LFP can be regularly charged to 100% and are cobalt free.

Li-ion batteries can also be regularly charged to 100%.
One pertinent fact I forget to mention was that LFP batteries operate at a lower voltage than Li-ion so more of them are needed to achieve a given voltage for EV use. To compound matters, LFP cells are heavier than Li-ion cells so they're not necessarily the best solution for all EV vehicle applications.

 

[clk320x]

Li-ion batteries can also be regularly charged to 100%.
One pertinent fact I forget to mention was that LFP batteries operate at a lower voltage than Li-ion so more of them are needed to achieve a given voltage for EV use. To compound matters, LFP cells are heavier than Li-ion cells so they're not necessarily the best solution for all EV vehicle applications.

The general advise with Li-on is to charge to 80-90% for ‘normal’ use - where as with the LFP you’re advised to always charge to 100%.

LFP being cobalt free makes them ethically better, a few on this thread mentioned the cobalt mines, whilst filling up with entirely ethically sourced fossil fuels. Oh the irony.

They are also cheaper, have better recyclability, less volatile failure etc… but I agree for performance EVs Li-on wins - however for regular run of the mill EVs LFP makes sense.

 

[Noitz]

They are also cheaper, have better recyclability, less volatile failure etc… but I agree for performance EVs Li-on wins - however for regular run of the mill EVs LFP makes sense.

Agreed on those facts.

 

[SmartAmg]

Agreed on those facts.

 

[Dryce]

That doesn’t mean that it accounts for 17% of fuel consumed, and of course the AC compressor may consume less than 2 PS, however the proportion of the load (when in operation) is more than suggested in this thread.

In the tropics we tended to find that the AC overhead was high in urban conditions in the sun - high ambient heat and no airflow. And then a lower (but still high level) during daytime driving on the highways. Impact on consumption (and at times on vehicle performance was tangible).

In the UK I have tended to find that AC has made very little overall impact on consumption on any car I've driven. Most summer days, or warmer spring and autumn days the AC is really only active to bring the car down to temperature after start and then low level of top up intermittently. There are very few days where it has had to work. Typically the ambient temperatures during the warmer parts of the year in the UK are not above the actual set climate control temperature and my view is that modern cars are pretty good at mixing fresh intake air to maintain the internal temperature of the car without running the aircon to cool it.

 

[Trickythemerc]

My aircon is on all year. A couple of years back the condensor got a leak from a flying stone, I ran for two weeks with no aircon till I could find time to do the job. Fuel consumption seemed to be normal, as Alpha said modern variable rate clutched compressors do not run at full load all the time. Driving with a window down probably increases drag and fuel consumption more than running the aircon.

 

[markjay]

Just saw the Kia EV9 in a showroom. Massive car (Range Rover size), beautiful looking, but very pricey. Mrs MJ also liked it...

 

[Petrol Pete]

Just saw the Kia EV9 in a showroom. Massive car (Range Rover size), beautiful looking, but very pricey. Mrs MJ also liked it...

Two thousand 600 Kg before anyone climbs in to drive it . Luggage ?? What a way to save 'precious resources' ! More weight than a 2024 Range Rover . FFS.

 

[clk320x]

Just saw the Kia EV9 in a showroom. Massive car (Range Rover size), beautiful looking, but very pricey. Mrs MJ also liked it...

It’s fine it’ll be worth 39p in a few weeks according to folk on here.

 

[SmartAmg]

It’s fine it’ll be worth 39p in a few weeks according to folk on here.

Nah, 35p

 

[Noitz]

I know one thing for sure, it's ugly as hell.

 

[Smiley]

Cars like the EV9, the Toyota BXZDR or whatever it is called, the Nissan Ariya (supposedly the replacement for the Leaf?) do make me laugh in disbelief at the irony of the reason for the drive to EVs....great big fat bloated cars using relatively large amounts of energy to build and run, great big tyres leaving rubber particles and being ripped to shreds in a few thousand miles........oh the irony.
Just shows that the human race is pretty stupid despite being so very clever.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Cars like the EV9, the Toyota BXZDR or whatever it is called, the Nissan Ariya (supposedly the replacement for the Leaf?) do make me laugh in disbelief at the irony of the reason for the drive to EVs....great big fat bloated cars using relatively large amounts of energy to build and run, great big tyres leaving rubber particles and being ripped to shreds in a few thousand miles........oh the irony.
Just shows that the human race is pretty stupid despite being so very clever.

Just shows that half the human race has below average intelligence while the other half doesn’t.

Regulators roll in and do something like introducing a gas guzzler tax in the USA to reduce the absurd size of American cars and engines.

So what happens? They inadvertently create Minivans, SUV’s and luxury trucks to avoid the tax “because they aren’t passenger vehicles.”

Gas-Guzzler Tax Loophole: SUVs and Other Light Trucks Drive Off with Billions

Friends of the Earth is dedicated to protecting the planet from environmental degradation; preservingbiological, cultural and ethnic diversity of the planet; and empoweringcitizens to have an individual voice in decisions affecting the quality oftheir environment - and their lives.

fbaum.unc.edu

Forty years on, regulators shove EVs at consumers to reduce CO2 emissions. What happens ?

The manufacturing industry moves to Asia, where they build EVs using Fossil fuels and ship vehicles thousands of miles, using fossil fuels, to consumers on the other side of the planet. Where the extra half tonne of vehicle weight damages roads and creates greater tyre particulate pollution in urban areas