UK proposals: Cycle Streets With 15mph Limit And No Overtaking

[krisby]

no, I'm not talking methane, I'm talking C02, i.e. he is literally a smoker, not a farter.

 

[DrNick]

Bloody cyclists.... They should have to pay road tax

As has been pointed out, there is no such thing as road tax. This disappeared many years ago (about the same time road repairs stopped!)

We now have VED which (as has also been pointed out) is based rather crudely on CO2 emissions from the vehicle, and not any other emissions from the driver).

On this basis bicycles don't pay any VED, like some other categories of road users, notably low emission vehicles.

Anyway, its lucky that these suicidal cyclists are only on bikes (and Darwinism tends to keep their numbers down.) Imagine what would happen if they graduated into car driving. Oh some of them have....

 

[DrNick]

In case my post above is misconstrued, I'm not getting at anyone in particular - just pointing out in general that the standard of car driving is very variable as well (although its a lot better in this country than in many others I've driven in!)

 

[Sp!ke]

I have dark thoughts sometimes... most times actually, that cyclists should be beaten with sticks, not big sticks, just small thin ones with enough flex to inflict serious pain but not death or lasting injury.

 

[Giantvanman]

Darwinism tends to keep their numbers down

With the side effect that the mothering state deems it proper to spend tax payer's money to try and protect them.

Unfortunately, stupid costs money and will always find a way to outsmart best intentions.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

I have dark thoughts sometimes... most times actually, that cyclists should be beaten with sticks, not big sticks, just small thin ones with enough flex to inflict serious pain but not death or lasting injury.

I think the very same about the drivers who wonder into cycle lanes while texting, the ones who dont bother indicating, the ones who pull out without looking or the ones who open doors without so much as a glance.

All these cycle haters (including you) should spend a couple of days cycling to see just how dangerous it is/the shocking driving from the vast majority of drivers.

Cyclists are an easy target which are all branded by the few who do cycle through redlights etc.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

The good old trustworthy, completely unbiased BBC has done a poll to go along with this, to prove that people don't feel safe cycling on roads:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28093374

 

[Pacamack]

What makes me feel unsafe cycling are the roads themselves, not the traffic. They are now in such a bad condition that it is almost impossible to ride close to the curb and you have to constantly scan ahead to avoid dropping the front wheel into a crevasse!

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

What makes me feel unsafe cycling are the roads themselves, not the traffic. They are now in such a bad condition that it is almost impossible to ride close to the curb and you have to constantly scan ahead to avoid dropping the front wheel into a crevasse!

Great, so this is how pressure might be applied to get all the potholes repaired:

Cyclists complain about not feeling safe on pothole-infested roads. They then complain to the BBC who make a poll that proves that cyclists don't feel safe on the roads due to the dangerous potholes.

Government/councils then feel under pressure to fix all the holes.

Everyone benefits including car, bike and motorbike drivers.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Also, we all know, there is no such thing as road tax, it's called VED: vehicle excise duty.

So I found it quite amusing that I spotted a white van investigating a car parked in the street that had no valid tax disc, ooops ved disc on display. The man clamped the car. Now get this, the van had this written on the side:

https://www.cartaxenforcement.co.uk/

Shouldn't the address be: vedenforcement.co.uk ?

Sounds like they are themselves confused as to what to call it.

On their website it says:

Car Tax Enforcement

Welcome to the DVLA notice payment system

"Every vehicle registered in the United Kingdom (UK) must be taxed if used or kept on a public road. If the vehicle is kept off-road it must either be taxed or have a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) in force. If not it could be wheelclamped or removed."

 

[Deleted member 65149]

If we are forced to have bikes on the same roads as cars then I don't think it unreasonable to:

...
2. Require cyclists to pay an equivalent VED, although cheaper than cars

They already pay as much as cars in Band A (up to 100g/km CO2) - zero! All those cars are heavier than bikes and will wear out the road surface more than any cyclist (except those under the wheels of busses and lorries).

 

[krisby]

I think the very same about the drivers who wonder into cycle lanes while texting, the ones who dont bother indicating, the ones who pull out without looking or the ones who open doors without so much as a glance.

All these cycle haters (including you) should spend a couple of days cycling to see just how dangerous it is/the shocking driving from the vast majority of drivers.

Cyclists are an easy target which are all branded by the few who do cycle through redlights etc.

Not defending car drivers here, and what you say is true, however, it is obvious who as it fault in that situation and if they caused an accident or injury to a cyclist would be found at fault.

If a cyclist is in a left only lane and then has a hissy fit when a car tries to turn left because they are going straight on, or he runs a red light, or goes down the inside of me then stops at the red light just as my light for left hand turn changes green, I wonder if the cyclist would be deemed at fault for causing the accident? In the eyes of the law that is.

I personally don't have beef with cyclists, heck I used to ride myself in the 90s, Hammersmith to Fulham for my daily commute, but I respected the rules of the road and was very aware that I was sharing the road with objects far bigger than me, I have no recollection of any near misses.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

They already pay as much as cars in Band A (up to 100g/km CO2) - zero! All those cars are heavier than bikes and will wear out the road surface more than any cyclist (except those under the wheels of busses and lorries).

I think the VED is based on co2 emissions, not how much wear and tear the vehicle causes to the road.

So how many grams of CO2 does a cyclist emit per mile/km?

And to help stay on-topic, we will ignore the benefits that extra CO2 provides to growing plants.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

... it is almost impossible to ride close to the curb and you have to constantly scan ahead to avoid dropping the front wheel into a crevasse!

I only started riding a bike about 60 years ago and even back then I learnt that the best way to stay upright and not ride into anything was to constantly scan ahead. Then a few years later I got a motorbike and found it even more important to constantly scan ahead because I was usually going a lot faster and so found it even more important to look where I was going. And guess what, I still find it more than useful to constantly scan ahead when I'm driving my car! If everyone could manage this (except when checking mirrors) our roads would be a lot safer.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I think the VED is based on co2 emissions, not how much wear and tear the vehicle causes to the road.

So how many grams of CO2 does a cyclist emit per mile/km?

Correct. I was just reinforcing what has already been said in response to the many calls for cyclists to pay some sort of "road tax". My point being that they pay nothing to use their bikes, just like the owners of many cars who aren't required to pay VED; but those cars cause more wear and tear to the roads than the bikes. So, to my mind, it would be grossly unfair to charge for the use of bicycles.

I don't understand why you've asked the pointless question.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

What makes me feel unsafe cycling are the roads themselves, not the traffic. They are now in such a bad condition that it is almost impossible to ride close to the curb and you have to constantly scan ahead to avoid dropping the front wheel into a crevasse!

At the end of the BBC article it says:

Do you cycle on British roads? How dangerous do you find this? Email your experience to*[email protected]*using the subject "Cycling".

If cyclists do this then maybe next week BBC will publish article saying "cyclists feel unsafe on pothole-riddled roads" ?

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Correct. I was just reinforcing what has already been said in response to the many calls for cyclists to pay some sort of "road tax". My point being that they pay nothing to use their bikes, just like the owners of many cars who aren't required to pay VED; but those cars cause more wear and tear to the roads than the bikes. So, to my mind, it would be grossly unfair to charge for the use of bicycles.

I don't understand why you've asked the pointless question.

I don't consider that asking a question, to which the answer is unknown to the asker, a pointless question.

If tptb tell us 'CO2 bad, so pay up' then surely enquiring about CO2 emissions of cyclists, puffing and panting all that CO2 out, is valid too?

 

[flango]

This is really easy roads were built for cars and vehicles not cyclists. Ban them from all public roads and let them run on cycle paths adjacent to the pavement like they do in Germany. Problem solved.

Cyclists and vehicles don't mix any basic risk assessment will tell you that so remove the interaction and the problem, get cyclists off the road and safety improves, simples ;-)

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

This is really easy roads were built for cars and vehicles not cyclists. Ban them from all public roads and let them run on cycle paths adjacent to the pavement like they do in Germany. Problem solved.

Cyclists and vehicles don't mix any basic risk assessment will tell you that so remove the interaction and the problem, get cyclists off the road and safety improves, simples ;-)

Separated cycle lanes from roads, like Holland etc, would be ideal, but there they designed this in, whereas here not, it would appear.

The problem will be making space to retrofit cycle lanes to existing roads: shave a bit off the pavement and/or roads too?

 

[Pacamack]

I only started riding a bike about 60 years ago and even back then I learnt that the best way to stay upright and not ride into anything was to constantly scan ahead. Then a few years later I got a motorbike and found it even more important to constantly scan ahead because I was usually going a lot faster and so found it even more important to look where I was going. And guess what, I still find it more than useful to constantly scan ahead when I'm driving my car! If everyone could manage this (except when checking mirrors) our roads would be a lot safer.

Yes, well done. I'm sure in your 60 years of experience you've had the opportunity to look at something other than the road surface, something I'm finding it harder and harder to do?!