Bought car from trader and engine has gone in less than 150 miles

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by m2287, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. m2287

    m2287 MB Enthusiast

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    OK so Last Monday (03/12/12) I px'd my c200kompressor with £130 cash for an auto bmw 320d compact (was up for sale for £2500).

    I did this with someone who had taken the car in trade and took my car in as trade. He operates from his home, and gave me a hand written invoice.

    I have done less than 150miles in it and I have had a swirl flap from the intake fall into cylinder 1. Cost of new engine + fitting is around £1300. Noone wants to even contemplate fixing my engine for whatever reason.

    Trader refuses any responsibility, and says it was sold as seen etc.

    Do I have a leg to stand on legally, what should I do next?
     
  2. bolide

    bolide MB Enthusiast

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    Swirl flap failure is wear & tear

    Nick Froome
     
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  3. Berkshire Rich

    Berkshire Rich Active Member

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    No expert on this failure - see above - but you may just have a case depending on how long ago you bought it, and what age / mileage it is. Sale of Goods Act gives you some protection. Does not apply to private vendors but trader has to sell goods of reasonable quality. Question is whether what has happened is "reasonable"
     
  4. jaymanek

    jaymanek Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    All hinges on whether he can be classed as a motor trader or not...

    If he is a trader (advertised the car as trade and you have proof) then the law says its his responsibility - wear and tear or not.
     
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  5. MicB

    MicB MB Enthusiast

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    Bone fide traders have a responsibility beyond 150 miles and 9 days is my understanding.

    Private sellers do not.

    Mic
     
  6. OP
    OP
    m2287

    m2287 MB Enthusiast

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    He was not named as the last driver on the vehicle, and he said that he has 14 other cars at the moment. He seemed like he just did it as a hobby on the side, not officially if you get me?
     
  7. davidsw

    davidsw Active Member

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    I wonder if the Inland Revenue have him down as a trader ?
     
  8. stephen coy

    stephen coy Active Member

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    Maybe what is written on the invoice will have a bearing. i.e. if there is no reference on it of any commercial enterprise-say it merely is handwritten in a form that a private seller would give, then that might make a case against the seller difficult.
     
  9. covlad

    covlad Member

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    yes you do have aleg to stand on did the invoice say sold as seen if not then get intouch with trading standards for advice if you had finance write 1 letter stating your canceling the agreement ie give them 27days notice give the reason the engine is fxxxd cancel the direct debit print 3 copys 1 copy you keep 1 send 1 to the underighter and 1 to the place your brought the car from then call up the underwriter stating the problem and your sending them notice this does work did this a few years back i got cam belt changed and a full service at no cost ?????



    had a problem on 1 of my
     
  10. Rory

    Rory MB Enthusiast

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    ...and then you have to weigh up how hard it's going to be to get him to actually pay.
     
  11. MicB

    MicB MB Enthusiast

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    I think HMRC would regard 14 cars as trading. I think a loose rule of thumb is anything more than 6 cars/year bought and sold is likely to be deemed to be trading unless the ''trader'' can convince HMRC otherwise.
    This is hearsay from by motor trading mates but it seems a reasonable litmus test to me.

    Mic
     
  12. MrVix

    MrVix Active Member

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    I think you are on a sticky wicket with this one. In my humble opinion your best bet is to threaten to report him to HMRC, it might get him to at least make some sort of contribution. The tax man would definitely see 14 cars as trade imho.
    .
    Even doing the above I think you may struggle and will have to put it down to experience or alternatively a big stick;)
     
  13. jaymanek

    jaymanek Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    Matter for the courts if it gets that far... 99% of the time they will cough up if you start sending legal letters.


    What the OP needs to do is print off the original advert, then print off all adverts for his other cars.

    14 cars for sale is definately a trader.

    Sold as seen on the receipt is simply a waste of ink.

    The trader is responsible for this failure, it has happened in a matter of days and a few miles... if it had happened in 6 months, the law wouldnt be so clear...

    Dont be afraid to use the small claims system, its a doddle and involves very little effort.

    As with any dispute, paperwork & polite written communication is what you need to get this matter sorted.

    Also remember DO NOT get any work done immediately. You send him the quote and give him the option of full refund, repair himself at his garage, or payment of the job at your garage.
    He may wish to inspect the car himself and you must give him opportunity to inspect if he wishes.
     
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  14. OP
    OP
    m2287

    m2287 MB Enthusiast

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    I have a hand written invoice which says:

    BMW 320td blue LB02AEG
    Part Exchange Taken
    Mercedes Benz c200k Y314RLK + £130 cash

    Buyers name and adress (with my details)
    Signed by me

    Sellers name and signiature (no address)

    On 3rd december 2012
    at 1700-1720
     
  15. OP
    OP
    m2287

    m2287 MB Enthusiast

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    So the trader is now refusing to give his address, anyone know how i can get it from the dvla?
     
  16. Harrythedog

    Harrythedog MB Enthusiast

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    Contact the local tax office, they'll have it!
     
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  17. OP
    OP
    m2287

    m2287 MB Enthusiast

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    He is definately a trader, go on gumtree and search for cars in Harlow, all the ones being sold by Robert are his!
     
  18. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    Hand written or not... I doubt any further proof is needed to the fact as he is a trader? Private sellers do not raise invoices. At best a private seller may provide a written note of some description, but it will not be called 'invoice'.

    And to my knowledge 'Sold as seen' only applies to trade-to-trade sales, not not for private buyers. I am assuming you bought the car privately and you are the new registered keeper?

    But why do we assume that there's an HMRC issue here? If he is a trader, and raises invoices, he may well be paying his taxes as he should?
     
  19. OP
    OP
    m2287

    m2287 MB Enthusiast

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    So does anyone know hoe I can get this guys address, DVLA said I need to write to them but cant guarantee anything, and tax office was a no go also!
     
  20. davidjpowell

    davidjpowell MB Enthusiast

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    If all else fails get someone to ring up saying his won some vouchers and where would he like them to be sent?
     

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