Dash1
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2010
- Messages
- 227
- Location
- Merseyside/Staffordshire
- Car
- 2013-Audi A8L (W12) Exclusive (D4) 1998 H-D FLHTCUi and FLSTS 95th Anniversary Models.
Colin_b
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin b http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/detailing/135197-de-badging-method-post1537515.html#post1537515
And indicate it's a base model, but the owner wants to inject an element of mystery.
The single exhaust, skinny wheels (or fat aftermarket ones) and too often the unfaded outline of the original badges led a clue.
The replacement and unevenly stuck on ebay AMG badge simply adds value for observers.
On the same basis I don't need to justify why it appears "wannabe" to me.
Let me understand this, based upon your above posted comments, you are actually implying that just because a vehicle is de-badged, it follows your logical reasoning that it’s a base model. My CL500 (W215) is de-badged, and I can assure you that is no base model. It does not have the skinny wheels that to refer to, or any aftermarket ones come to that matter, nor does it have any faded areas where the badges have been. It may be the smaller engine size within the CL range, but my car has an original basic price tag of £70k and there is an additional £27.5k worth of Designo, AMG and countless other options and the like that were fitted at the factory during the course of its build, one of those factory options was actually the omission of the badges from the vehicle - (model designation deletion - no cost option). So, would you please enlighten me on the merits of what my car is purporting to be, as in your very own words “wannabe”?
I am a Principal Mechanical/Electrical Engineer with JLR, and I can tell you this, I spend a considerable amount of my time on the factory floor at Halewood, Castle Bromwich and Solihull Plants solving issues and problems alike. I see many vehicles leave those factories; and the cost of some of those vehicles are far in excess of £100k, and quite a number of those vehicles are in fact de-badged – Fact, customer optioned, other than that the respective vehicle will be badged appropriately, unless, it’s a prototype model or an engineering model on test.
Don’t lose sight of the fact that some people do actually choose and prefer not to advertise which model they actually drive. Also, consider this, some people do choose to have the badges removed before the typical “badge thieves” decide they will remove them instead, often causing paintwork and body damage alike, resulting in possible unnecessary out-of-pocket expense to the vehicles owner. In addition, many people just prefer an aesthetic clean-looking vehicle. After all, they are just badges, some people take issue with them, some people don’t.
I’ve just placed an order for a new Audi A8L (W12) a couple of weeks ago now, at a cost of £127.5k, £95k is the basic price of the car and £32.5k worth of Audi Exclusive and other factory fitted options. I’ve specifically chose to have the badges omitted, even the small W12’s from the grille and front wings, after all, it is my choice, and when I am paying out that kind of money for a motor car, then I am pretty dam sure that I will decide what goes on that vehicle. In addition, that’s no base model by anyone’s imagination and standards, and it certainly does not purport to be anything other than what it actually is. The only way you would be able to identify that de-badged vehicle from an external point of view, compared to let’s say, an alternative A8L model, would be the enormous twin tailpipes at the rear, very distinctive to a W12 only. I personally, as an individual, prefer not to advertise the exact model of car that I drive, if at all possible. As long as I know what I am driving, I couldn’t give two-hoots what you or anyone else thinks, it’s that simple, there is no element of mystery in that I can assure you. Someone like that of yourself, with that mindset of thinking, well, its your problem isn’t it, certainly not mine. Look at the bigger picture and apply some thought process before you preach, and don’t always assume other individuals have ulterior motives for de-badging vehicles, some do, I agree, but not all.
The OP drives a W211 - E280 - CDI Avantgarde, irrespective of what year it is, it’s his pride and joy and I may add, a very nice motorcar indeed. That certainly isn’t a base model by any stretch of the imagination, and yet, he is questioned as to why he chooses to remove his badges. We should be giving him the advice that he originally requested, as so many other members on here have already done so and to eliminate any possible damage risk he may do himself, he only wanted our advice and expertise. Don’t pre-judge the book by its cover, as often is the case they do make very good reading.
We would get on a lot better on this forum if people just did as they were asked, and that is, to provide, if they do have the knowledge, good sound constructive advice, technical tips and information. This other member – DCStubbs, he has only been a member on here for a couple of weeks, and yet, his comments to the OP were ” Why debadge? unless you are desparate to hide what you have.” Why on earth would the OP be desperate to hide the very fact that he owns and drives a very nice motorcar?
Have a look on this site, you will probably find some photos of my CL500, and you will see that there are no badges whatsoever near it, apart from the fact that it retains the original three-pointed boot and bonnet stars, that’s enough for me. If you were to put a CL600 at the side of mine, then you would not be able to tell any difference whatsoever, apart from the fact that I have the factory fitted AMG body styling and wheels, but so do many CL600’s. If your point and comments were in fact aimed at vehicles purporting to be something that they are not, i.e., “badged” as a higher spec car, then I would tend to agree with you. You don’t see any AMG badges off ebay stuck on my vehicle either. If I would have wanted an AMG, then I would have bought an AMG, I would still have removed the badges. I just like the sporty image compared to the standard CL image, nothing wrong with that. But that’s what choices are all about, aren’t they. I happen to think that my car looks far more aesthetically elegant and sporty without the badges, you may disagree, but it’s just an opinion anyway.
Personally, I don’t need badges plastered all over my vehicles to tell all and sundry “look at me, - look what I am driving”. Choices, for me, are for the eye of the beholder only. I also own a very very rare Harley Davidson motorcycle, and yet, its full of badges and emblems, which are intrinsic to the bike and its 95-year history, to remove any one of those would affect its value. Ask any pure HD enthusiast. So, in essence, there are merits for and against de-badging vehicles. Ask yourself this question, why do you think the badges are on there in the first instance, for your benefit only, I think not. Motorcar Manufacturers have some very clever marketing people and their sole aim is to promote that product to their best ability and in as wide a market as is possible. I am not a marketing person or marketing expert by any means, but I do know some people in JLR that are.
Some of the members on here have also posted and indicated that they bought their cars from new and that the brochures at which they originally viewed the vehicle showed the car as a de-badged version. Don’t you think that there was a reason for that? Also, why do you think that there is a no cost option availability for the deletion of model designation on the specification documents? Manufacturers don’t force you to advertise their product and have given you the option to delete the badges at the production level. For those people that may generally be interested, badges are only fitted to vehicles following the cars production in an area referred to as “Trim and Final”. This specific area of production looks at all the areas of the vehicle before it goes onto its final tests and inspections such as paint/body/rollers/headlamp checks/water tests etc., etc., etc.
Here is another quote from another forum member – MB-BTurbo. He states: -
“Factory spec is with the badges on. If the original purchaser choses to take them off, even on the factory line then they should declare it. I have had a long discussion on this with insurance companies and insurance reps on other forums”.
This is absolute nonsense and is simply not true, where on earth you have got that information from is beyond me. Badges are not fitted to vehicles at the factory and then removed at the factory, whether your insurance man tells you or not. Those long discussions that you have so called had have been for nothing.
When a vehicle enters the factory production line from the BIW (body in white) it goes in to the paintshop area to be processed and painted, from there, it has a build document attached to it referred to as a “shipper”. That shipper is the DNA profile of that specific car and it stays with that vehicle throughout the whole of its production process. That document contains such information as to give the assembly line worker, at their specific assembly stations, the information as to what is to be assembled on that car. He/she does not deviate from it, if it states on that document that no badges are to be fitted, then no badges are fitted. It really is that straightforward and simple.
Unfortunately, that’s the only problem that I have found with this forum, people deviate considerably from what was originally being asked in the opening posts. It’s now escalated into a full-blown war as to the rights/wrongs of de-badging, insurance notifications etc., absolutely and totally unnecessary.
Read some of the key words in the OP’s original opening post, “good method” and “without damaging”, that’s all he really wanted to know. If you can’t answer and contribute to that, then don’t throw in your unwelcome comments like de-badged vehicles are just base models and wannabes You really couldn’t be further from the truth in very many instances. As I have said earlier, don’t pre-judge the book by its cover and don’t assume that the cover tells the whole story. I am not being unkind here in my comments; on the contrary, just consider others whom you may also offend.
If such issues are to be discussed, then why does someone not take the initiative and start a new thread entitled something like, “Modifications and Insurance Issues”. BTB 500 in his comments makes some perfectly legitimate and accurate remarks and I am sure a whole new debate to this will open up if it has not already on previous threads. I haven’t been on here for a while, so I don’t know whats been discussed and what hasn’t.
Even though this thread is several weeks old now, and the OP has already removed his badges, lets get back on the original track anyway and I’ll start it here with this: -
Hi Murff,
As previously stated, many of the members have given you some really good advice and tips here, however, as an alternative, you could also consider the use of Ronson lighter fluid, works wonders, really softens the sponge backing and adhesive leaving very little residue. Once removed, polish the paintwork with a good quality wax. This tip was shown to me when I visited a Harley Davidson workshop many many years ago when one of the mechanics was removing the emblems/badges from a damaged fuel tank. Never found a need to use it myself, but it does actually work, and very well. If you have now managed to remove them, then please let us know your success and outcome.
Best Regards,
Dash1
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin b http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/detailing/135197-de-badging-method-post1537515.html#post1537515
And indicate it's a base model, but the owner wants to inject an element of mystery.
The single exhaust, skinny wheels (or fat aftermarket ones) and too often the unfaded outline of the original badges led a clue.
The replacement and unevenly stuck on ebay AMG badge simply adds value for observers.
On the same basis I don't need to justify why it appears "wannabe" to me.
Let me understand this, based upon your above posted comments, you are actually implying that just because a vehicle is de-badged, it follows your logical reasoning that it’s a base model. My CL500 (W215) is de-badged, and I can assure you that is no base model. It does not have the skinny wheels that to refer to, or any aftermarket ones come to that matter, nor does it have any faded areas where the badges have been. It may be the smaller engine size within the CL range, but my car has an original basic price tag of £70k and there is an additional £27.5k worth of Designo, AMG and countless other options and the like that were fitted at the factory during the course of its build, one of those factory options was actually the omission of the badges from the vehicle - (model designation deletion - no cost option). So, would you please enlighten me on the merits of what my car is purporting to be, as in your very own words “wannabe”?
I am a Principal Mechanical/Electrical Engineer with JLR, and I can tell you this, I spend a considerable amount of my time on the factory floor at Halewood, Castle Bromwich and Solihull Plants solving issues and problems alike. I see many vehicles leave those factories; and the cost of some of those vehicles are far in excess of £100k, and quite a number of those vehicles are in fact de-badged – Fact, customer optioned, other than that the respective vehicle will be badged appropriately, unless, it’s a prototype model or an engineering model on test.
Don’t lose sight of the fact that some people do actually choose and prefer not to advertise which model they actually drive. Also, consider this, some people do choose to have the badges removed before the typical “badge thieves” decide they will remove them instead, often causing paintwork and body damage alike, resulting in possible unnecessary out-of-pocket expense to the vehicles owner. In addition, many people just prefer an aesthetic clean-looking vehicle. After all, they are just badges, some people take issue with them, some people don’t.
I’ve just placed an order for a new Audi A8L (W12) a couple of weeks ago now, at a cost of £127.5k, £95k is the basic price of the car and £32.5k worth of Audi Exclusive and other factory fitted options. I’ve specifically chose to have the badges omitted, even the small W12’s from the grille and front wings, after all, it is my choice, and when I am paying out that kind of money for a motor car, then I am pretty dam sure that I will decide what goes on that vehicle. In addition, that’s no base model by anyone’s imagination and standards, and it certainly does not purport to be anything other than what it actually is. The only way you would be able to identify that de-badged vehicle from an external point of view, compared to let’s say, an alternative A8L model, would be the enormous twin tailpipes at the rear, very distinctive to a W12 only. I personally, as an individual, prefer not to advertise the exact model of car that I drive, if at all possible. As long as I know what I am driving, I couldn’t give two-hoots what you or anyone else thinks, it’s that simple, there is no element of mystery in that I can assure you. Someone like that of yourself, with that mindset of thinking, well, its your problem isn’t it, certainly not mine. Look at the bigger picture and apply some thought process before you preach, and don’t always assume other individuals have ulterior motives for de-badging vehicles, some do, I agree, but not all.
The OP drives a W211 - E280 - CDI Avantgarde, irrespective of what year it is, it’s his pride and joy and I may add, a very nice motorcar indeed. That certainly isn’t a base model by any stretch of the imagination, and yet, he is questioned as to why he chooses to remove his badges. We should be giving him the advice that he originally requested, as so many other members on here have already done so and to eliminate any possible damage risk he may do himself, he only wanted our advice and expertise. Don’t pre-judge the book by its cover, as often is the case they do make very good reading.
We would get on a lot better on this forum if people just did as they were asked, and that is, to provide, if they do have the knowledge, good sound constructive advice, technical tips and information. This other member – DCStubbs, he has only been a member on here for a couple of weeks, and yet, his comments to the OP were ” Why debadge? unless you are desparate to hide what you have.” Why on earth would the OP be desperate to hide the very fact that he owns and drives a very nice motorcar?
Have a look on this site, you will probably find some photos of my CL500, and you will see that there are no badges whatsoever near it, apart from the fact that it retains the original three-pointed boot and bonnet stars, that’s enough for me. If you were to put a CL600 at the side of mine, then you would not be able to tell any difference whatsoever, apart from the fact that I have the factory fitted AMG body styling and wheels, but so do many CL600’s. If your point and comments were in fact aimed at vehicles purporting to be something that they are not, i.e., “badged” as a higher spec car, then I would tend to agree with you. You don’t see any AMG badges off ebay stuck on my vehicle either. If I would have wanted an AMG, then I would have bought an AMG, I would still have removed the badges. I just like the sporty image compared to the standard CL image, nothing wrong with that. But that’s what choices are all about, aren’t they. I happen to think that my car looks far more aesthetically elegant and sporty without the badges, you may disagree, but it’s just an opinion anyway.
Personally, I don’t need badges plastered all over my vehicles to tell all and sundry “look at me, - look what I am driving”. Choices, for me, are for the eye of the beholder only. I also own a very very rare Harley Davidson motorcycle, and yet, its full of badges and emblems, which are intrinsic to the bike and its 95-year history, to remove any one of those would affect its value. Ask any pure HD enthusiast. So, in essence, there are merits for and against de-badging vehicles. Ask yourself this question, why do you think the badges are on there in the first instance, for your benefit only, I think not. Motorcar Manufacturers have some very clever marketing people and their sole aim is to promote that product to their best ability and in as wide a market as is possible. I am not a marketing person or marketing expert by any means, but I do know some people in JLR that are.
Some of the members on here have also posted and indicated that they bought their cars from new and that the brochures at which they originally viewed the vehicle showed the car as a de-badged version. Don’t you think that there was a reason for that? Also, why do you think that there is a no cost option availability for the deletion of model designation on the specification documents? Manufacturers don’t force you to advertise their product and have given you the option to delete the badges at the production level. For those people that may generally be interested, badges are only fitted to vehicles following the cars production in an area referred to as “Trim and Final”. This specific area of production looks at all the areas of the vehicle before it goes onto its final tests and inspections such as paint/body/rollers/headlamp checks/water tests etc., etc., etc.
Here is another quote from another forum member – MB-BTurbo. He states: -
“Factory spec is with the badges on. If the original purchaser choses to take them off, even on the factory line then they should declare it. I have had a long discussion on this with insurance companies and insurance reps on other forums”.
This is absolute nonsense and is simply not true, where on earth you have got that information from is beyond me. Badges are not fitted to vehicles at the factory and then removed at the factory, whether your insurance man tells you or not. Those long discussions that you have so called had have been for nothing.
When a vehicle enters the factory production line from the BIW (body in white) it goes in to the paintshop area to be processed and painted, from there, it has a build document attached to it referred to as a “shipper”. That shipper is the DNA profile of that specific car and it stays with that vehicle throughout the whole of its production process. That document contains such information as to give the assembly line worker, at their specific assembly stations, the information as to what is to be assembled on that car. He/she does not deviate from it, if it states on that document that no badges are to be fitted, then no badges are fitted. It really is that straightforward and simple.
Unfortunately, that’s the only problem that I have found with this forum, people deviate considerably from what was originally being asked in the opening posts. It’s now escalated into a full-blown war as to the rights/wrongs of de-badging, insurance notifications etc., absolutely and totally unnecessary.
Read some of the key words in the OP’s original opening post, “good method” and “without damaging”, that’s all he really wanted to know. If you can’t answer and contribute to that, then don’t throw in your unwelcome comments like de-badged vehicles are just base models and wannabes You really couldn’t be further from the truth in very many instances. As I have said earlier, don’t pre-judge the book by its cover and don’t assume that the cover tells the whole story. I am not being unkind here in my comments; on the contrary, just consider others whom you may also offend.
If such issues are to be discussed, then why does someone not take the initiative and start a new thread entitled something like, “Modifications and Insurance Issues”. BTB 500 in his comments makes some perfectly legitimate and accurate remarks and I am sure a whole new debate to this will open up if it has not already on previous threads. I haven’t been on here for a while, so I don’t know whats been discussed and what hasn’t.
Even though this thread is several weeks old now, and the OP has already removed his badges, lets get back on the original track anyway and I’ll start it here with this: -
Hi Murff,
As previously stated, many of the members have given you some really good advice and tips here, however, as an alternative, you could also consider the use of Ronson lighter fluid, works wonders, really softens the sponge backing and adhesive leaving very little residue. Once removed, polish the paintwork with a good quality wax. This tip was shown to me when I visited a Harley Davidson workshop many many years ago when one of the mechanics was removing the emblems/badges from a damaged fuel tank. Never found a need to use it myself, but it does actually work, and very well. If you have now managed to remove them, then please let us know your success and outcome.
Best Regards,
Dash1
.
.
...
..i feel anymore time is wasted on this now. im out. i hope the op manages to remove his badge with the advice on this thread and enjoys his clean look without prejudice or unwarranted judgement 
