how long for the engine to get hot? E320CDi

[glojo]

Not meaning to draw this out any further than necessary but pics of my car with rad cover...

Thanks very much indeed for taking the time and effort to post the excellent pictures, we may strongly disagree with each other but thanks for posting them.

what a pity we cannot run an experiment to se if this makes any difference, but you would never get two exact same days ith exact same temperatures.

Your picture highlightsd how silly it is to say the engine block is exposed to the effects of the wind as there is no way the block is exposed to the full force of the exterior winds, whether the radiator is covered or not.

John

 

[124fan]

Thats great and I thought it could be done on a 210, thats what I had on my 124 but I sprayed my cardboard black

I took no pains with painting, just folded the bag to required size slipped it in and dropped the bonnet. Its normally only there for a few weeks at worst and can be taken out in a few seconds if the temp happens to rise above 7C and replaced as necessary.

Cheers

 

[television]

Your picture highlightsd how silly it is to say the engine block is exposed to the effects of the wind as there is no way the block is exposed to the full force of the exterior winds, whether the radiator is covered or not.

John

John, How can you say that, its just not true

 

[television]

Your picture highlightsd how silly it is to say the engine block is exposed to the effects of the wind as there is no way the block is exposed to the full force of the exterior winds, whether the radiator is covered or not.

John

Come on John, OK you do not like me thats one thing, this is something else.

What do you think that the fan is pulling through the rad, Scotch mist

 

[DieselE]

There is no way the block is exposed to the full force of the exterior winds

As this thread started with a W211 problem, may we use that car to explore the statement made by John and challenged by Malcolm.

The front of the car, aerodynamically, follows the basic principles of a wing. As the car penetrates the wind the airflow is divided some (most) flowing over the bonnet and some flowing beneath the car.

The grille is oncorporated into the bonnet in a way intended to minimise the interference with the airflow over the bonnet. The grill's surface area is partly taken up by bars which are shaped to minimise drag. Therefore air flowing through the grille is only a percentage of that passing over it.

Mounted behind the grille is the radiator. Just as when walking in open countryside in high winds people stay close to hedges as they provide some protection, so does the radiator act as a partial barrier to air flowing over the engine.

Taking those facts into account, I believe that John's statement is correct.

The only example I can think of where a combustion engine is exposed to the full force of the wind is the underwing mounted jet engine.

Feel free to disagree or point out errors or omissions.

 

[Satch]

Engines are designed for operation around "average" conditions expected in the market concerned. They can have trouble dealing with extreme temperatures outside that range and overheating concerns tended to mean that nearly all radiators are overspecified.

Ye olde radiator blinds in cold weather do make sense in extreme conditions because they also reduce airflow over the engine and help prevent formation of condensation on the inside of rocker covers etc. This is usually the case on older designes: to this day still see London black cabs sporting vinyl blinds with a clip our centre section or the plastic square stuck diamond fashion on the radiator grille.

But environmental issues have made this all more difficult because cold engines are less efficient and produce more pollutants. So car makers are seeking ways to get the engine up to temperature and keep it there ASAP. But sometimes it goes a bit wrong.

Classic case was the Mondeo.

At higher engine temperatures the efficiency of the engine is improved, fuel consumption falls and the exhaust emission are reduced. So the coolant thermostat was set to ensure an operating temperature of 98º C, which is high because the usual engine operating temperature is 80º to 90ºC ish.

But apply full load and the temperature quickly became too high and damage could result. So Ford developed an electric heater for the expansion element. The expansion element is heated up when high engine loads are applied to simulate a higher coolant temperature level. The thermostat then opened wider (or sooner) and the operating temperature thus reduced.

Except it was something else to go wrong and legions of Mondeo drivers experienced overcooling, prompting a number of equipment and software fixes.

Next generation of cars will increasingly be fitted with electric coolant pumps linked to ECU to provide variable cooling to better control engine temperature and hence reduce emissions. And then we will be sorry!

 

[television]

As this thread started with a W211 problem, may we use that car to explore the statement made by John and challenged by Malcolm.

The front of the car, aerodynamically, follows the basic principles of a wing. As the car penetrates the wind the airflow is divided some (most) flowing over the bonnet and some flowing beneath the car.

The grille is oncorporated into the bonnet in a way intended to minimise the interference with the airflow over the bonnet. The grill's surface area is partly taken up by bars which are shaped to minimise drag. Therefore air flowing through the grille is only a percentage of that passing over it.

Mounted behind the grille is the radiator. Just as when walking in open countryside in high winds people stay close to hedges as they provide some protection, so does the radiator act as a partial barrier to air flowing over the engine.

Taking those facts into account, I believe that John's statement is correct.

The only example I can think of where a combustion engine is exposed to the full force of the wind is the underwing mounted jet engine.

Feel free to disagree or point out errors or omissions.

We are not talking about walking pace, we are talking about a minimum wind speed of 70mph at 70mph on the motorway, plus a head wind increases this by a long margin. when the fan is running, it will hold a sheet of paper on the other side, it is the air passing through the rad that cools it, and not the air hitting a solid wall.



The fan does not draw air through at 70 mph as the noise would be unbearable at idle, so the air does pass through the rad, thats the way its made

 

[television]

My RR did not have a thermostat, and the only way to warm the car up was by closing the shutters, as the air passing through would have cooled it to make it undrivable

 

[124fan]

My RR did not have a thermostat, and the only way to warm the car up was by closing the shutters, as the air passing through would have cooled it to make it undrivable

Sorry to side track this, Malcolm do you still have the RR ? I will go and take a pic this morning of one you will like! Thats if the owner is home!

Cheers

 

[television]

No, I sold it in 2003, they take up too much time and room, I bought it as a wreck in 1974

 

[124fan]

Pics as promised...

Sorry, but she was trapped up for the winter or maybe just buried in a tidy shop!!

Cheers

 

[mattc]

Looks like my front room...only tidier

 

[robert.saunders]

Wow, what a fun place

 

[television]

That looks like a Barker body to me, and coming along very nicely.

Thanks for posting it up.

I still have loads of bits that I must sell off

 

[124fan]

That looks like a Barker body to me, and coming along very nicely.

Thanks for posting it up.

I still have loads of bits that I must sell off

I think he told me she was a 1923 centre shift only made for a few months (six), at some time in her life she was cut down into this truck body, the owner felt it was a shame to put her back to original, as she has been this way much longer than she was a car.

Cheers

 

[glojo]

I think he told me she was a 1923 centre shift only made for a few months (six), at some time in her life she was cut down into this truck body, the owner felt it was a shame to put her back to original, as she has been this way much longer than she was a car.

Cheers

What a car brilliant and it certainly loks comfortable all wrapped up in a nice balnket. Now that one may well need a radiator blind


Thanks for sharing those excellent pictures and please keep us updated.

What version of COMAND will you install

Regards
John

 

[television]

I think he told me she was a 1923 centre shift only made for a few months (six), at some time in her life she was cut down into this truck body, the owner felt it was a shame to put her back to original, as she has been this way much longer than she was a car.

Cheers

I saw that she was early by her shackles, and yes the gear shift soon moved over to the right with the handbrake, I am positive it was a barker once by the styling. With that body it will drive quite well, most so so heavy for the 20hp chassis, my body was only 700cwt
I took every nut and bolt off mine and it used up 5 garages

 

[stevesey]

My RR did not have a thermostat, and the only way to warm the car up was by closing the shutters, as the air passing through would have cooled it to make it undrivable

Now that makes more sense - couldn't figure out how Malcolm had spent so much time on a Reliant Robin (or Regal).

 

[skemball]

For Info I replaced my thermostat (e320 CDi 2000/X model) last week following the recent sub zero weather the engine temp was barely moving off the rest point until the ambient temperature went above +3c. In the summer it would get to around +60c on the gauge. Effectively tracking the abient temperature albeit not proportionally.

Over a period of 3 years the stat has gradually deterioted to the point where it was starting to open around 40c. It wasnt jammed open as the top hose would remain stone cold until the point when the stat opended.
Temp now runs at just over 80c on the gauge and doesnt vary regardless of traffic or motorway driving.

This is how it should be from the factory.
Warm up time to +40 is exactly the same but obviously it now continues up to +85c approx'.

On average morning trips comprising 3 miles urban crawl (reaches +50c) then onto motorway engine gauge reads +85c after approx' 4 miles on motorway.

The stat for my model year is 92c, early years were 87c.
Approx' £28 from dealer (wasnt is stock)
Fiddly to change due to restricted access but not technically difficult.
Allow 1 hour start to finish
No need to drain system (no easy drain points to access anyway.
Siphon with small bore tube in expansion tank
Disconnect the small bore hose that connects from the from stat housing to the expansion tank at the expansion tank end.
The hose is long enough to drape over the front of the engine bay into a bucket in front of the car.
With a cold engine start and allow to idle
The coolant pump will discharge coolant into the bucket until the level drops to the same level as the stat housing
Switch off and remove housing and stat assembly
Replace with new item which includes housing, stat, temp sensor and o ring gasket.
refill.
Job done.

It will still take for ever to heat up if left on idle but thats the same for most oil-burners

 

[television]

For Info I replaced my thermostat (e320 CDi 2000/X model) last week following the recent sub zero weather the engine temp was barely moving off the rest point until the ambient temperature went above +3c. In the summer it would get to around +60c on the gauge. Effectively tracking the abient temperature albeit not proportionally.

Over a period of 3 years the stat has gradually deterioted to the point where it was starting to open around 40c. It wasnt jammed open as the top hose would remain stone cold until the point when the stat opended.
Temp now runs at just over 80c on the gauge and doesnt vary regardless of traffic or motorway driving.

This is how it should be from the factory.
Warm up time to +40 is exactly the same but obviously it now continues up to +85c approx'.

On average morning trips comprising 3 miles urban crawl (reaches +50c) then onto motorway engine gauge reads +85c after approx' 4 miles on motorway.

The stat for my model year is 92c, early years were 87c.
Approx' £28 from dealer (wasnt is stock)
Fiddly to change due to restricted access but not technically difficult.
Allow 1 hour start to finish
No need to drain system (no easy drain points to access anyway.
Siphon with small bore tube in expansion tank
Disconnect the small bore hose that connects from the from stat housing to the expansion tank at the expansion tank end.
The hose is long enough to drape over the front of the engine bay into a bucket in front of the car.
With a cold engine start and allow to idle
The coolant pump will discharge coolant into the bucket until the level drops to the same level as the stat housing
Switch off and remove housing and stat assembly
Replace with new item which includes housing, stat, temp sensor and o ring gasket.
refill.
Job done.

It will still take for ever to heat up if left on idle but thats the same for most oil-burners

Thank you for the run down, I can pass the info on