how long for the engine to get hot? E320CDi

[television]

Why is it not good for the engine ?

The internal components are moving in a unnatural way, with no thrust or loading

 

[fredfloggle]

I would have thought that point failure of lubrication oil film would have been closer to the mark.

 

[DieselE]

While it has long been reported as bad for all engines to start them up from cold and leave them idling, my personal experience relates to diesels used in railway traction applications. In those cases it used to cause glazing of the cylinder bores which resulted in increased gas blow by and high crankcase pressure.

The problem was that the lower cylinder pressures in a cold engine at idle didn't force the piston rings against the bore so they tended to polish the surface.

I don't know if this is directly transerable to car engines but in the forty five years I've been driving car manufacturers have consistently advised against idling a cold engine.

 

[fredfloggle]

While it has long been reported as bad for all engines to start them up from cold and leave them idling, my personal experience relates to diesels used in railway traction applications. In those cases it used to cause glazing of the cylinder bores which resulted in increased gas blow by and high crankcase pressure.

The problem was that the lower cylinder pressures in a cold engine at idle didn't force the piston rings against the bore so they tended to polish the surface.

I don't know if this is directly transerable to car engines but in the forty five years I've been driving car manufacturers have consistently advised against idling a cold engine.

big diesels tend to "slopper" up the inlet manifold - and I suppose a new engine would tend to glaze up rather than run in . The paxman engines hated not producing rated power constantly and suffered from a lot of thermal problems and cracking. All bores glaze up which is fine so long as everything is run in - if a rough honed bore glazes up the you have some real problems - maybe a good thrashing will help.

 

[c240yaz]

I've never came accross any damage to a diesel engine allowing it to tick over to warm up, even in minus temps. Some of which I have maintained from delivery mileage to well over 400k miles in HGVs.
:bannana:

 

[fredfloggle]

Surely excess fuelling on the old style pumps can't do the lube oil much good ?

Diesels are less worried about cold conditions in any case, and will produce pretty close to maximum power from cold. I had a perkie 4203 and if you tried to warm it up by letting it idle from cold you will come back an hour later with the stat still shut . Neither letting a cold engine idle or cane it from cold can be good , a nice warm up gently increasing load sounds pretty sensible.

 

[c240yaz]

It's not that long ago, that we used to light a fire under the sump, (and sometimes the tank) on cold mornings, just to get the the diesels to start ! before all these new additives were added to the Derv.

The "older" forum members may know what I am talking about here ?

 

[eurico]

It's not that long ago, that we used to light a fire under the sump, (and sometimes the tank) on cold mornings, just to get the the diesels to start ! before all these new additives were added to the Derv.

The "older" forum members may know what I am talking about here ?

Bush pilots in Alaska used to drain the oil quickly after landing their Otters and Beavers (DeHavilands obviously!). otherwise it would freeze solid. Next morning they heated the oil in a pan and poured it in again.

 

[television]

Surely excess fuelling on the old style pumps can't do the lube oil much good ?

Diesels are less worried about cold conditions in any case, and will produce pretty close to maximum power from cold. I had a perkie 4203 and if you tried to warm it up by letting it idle from cold you will come back an hour later with the stat still shut . Neither letting a cold engine idle or cane it from cold can be good , a nice warm up gently increasing load sounds pretty sensible.

On a cold engine the pistons are much looser in the bores, this allows excess fuel to pass into the oil, the idea of driving it is to warm it quicker and put the pistons under load (thrust) to minimise unnatural bore wear

 

[jeremytaylor]

It's not that long ago, that we used to light a fire under the sump, (and sometimes the tank) on cold mornings, just to get the the diesels to start ! before all these new additives were added to the Derv.

The "older" forum members may know what I am talking about here ?

I used to have a Golf Mk 1 diesel in 1985, in the days when diesels were rare and the fuel in the UK had few anti-waxing additives. It was a right pig to drive fast in cold weather, because the fuel would wax up. I would have to stop and let the engine heat soak out, warm up the fuel lines, and set off again for a few more miles ... And do the same all over again.

Coming back to the radiator blinds, my 2CV was supplied from the factory with a muffler for the front grille. The instructions are to use it when the temp is below 8 C. Of course, this is an air-cooled engine, with none of the problems of water, thermostats, etc. to worry about. Oh for the simple things in life!

 

[television]

I used to have a Golf Mk 1 diesel in 1985, in the days when diesels were rare and the fuel in the UK had few anti-waxing additives. It was a right pig to drive fast in cold weather, because the fuel would wax up. I would have to stop and let the engine heat soak out, warm up the fuel lines, and set off again for a few more miles ... And do the same all over again.

Coming back to the radiator blinds, my 2CV was supplied from the factory with a muffler for the front grille. The instructions are to use it when the temp is below 8 C. Of course, this is an air-cooled engine, with none of the problems of water, thermostats, etc. to worry about. Oh for the simple things in life!

You are a brave man talking about blinds here

 

[glojo]

It's not that long ago, that we used to light a fire under the sump, (and sometimes the tank) on cold mornings, just to get the the diesels to start ! before all these new additives were added to the Derv.

The "older" forum members may know what I am talking about here ?

Grav look away now,
My father used to soak a rag in diesel, light it and then let it burn under the engine. As a young child I thought it crazy, and when I got older I used something I believe was called Ki-gas or similar. Whatever the name was it was an ether spray which we used to spray into the air intake

How times have chaged.... We no longer have those horrible cold spells

Regards
John

 

[BTB 500]

when I got older I used something I believe was called Ki-gas or similar.

From memory that was used as a primer for starting aero engines. When we hired a boat on the Avon many years ago we were given a can of quick-start and told to use it every time we started the engine. I guess it didn't have glow plugs?

 

[humbley]

Just change the thermostate easy to do first port of call ! . Or its a blocked heater matrix , but if temp gauge takes ages its the stat i reckon

 

[tim.100]

I used to have a Golf Mk 1 diesel in 1985, in the days when diesels were rare ........... Oh for the simple things in life!

A little one-upmanship - we had a V-reg Golf diesel; from 1979. It was the proverbial bag of nails when cold. Kept it 20 years and for two generations of family.

I had another Mark 1, and dare I say that I did use rad blinds - well some cardboard in front of the radiator for at least 3 months of winter. The electric fan rarely kicked in, summer or winter.

And an aside if I may....
On the first page of this thread, I was reminded of Orwell's 'Animal Farm.' The well-developed mantra among the animals is 'Two legs good, four legs bad.' I am no engineer, but I do appreciate that a quality engineering calculation is founded on robust assumptions and a deep understanding of the subject. Personally I prefer the technical posts on this forum which keep away from mantras and beliefs.

 

[glojo]

For those that watched the recent documtary series on truckers working up close to the Artic Circle we witnessed first hand the use of radiator blinds. These lorries were operating in temperatures sometimes dropping as low as -32f, I dread to think of the wind chill and also night temperatures, but we witnessed the alarms going off when a truck with these blinds OVERHEATED! That to me spoke volumes and yes there might be a place for tampedring with a modern radiator, but go into this with your eyes wide open. Diesel engines will take longer to get to their operating temperature and that is something owners must accept. If they are genuinely concerned then the thermostat as already stated, should be the second port of call 1st port bering to check your coolant levels.

Jihn

 

[glojo]

From memory that was used as a primer for starting aero engines. When we hired a boat on the Avon many years ago we were given a can of quick-start and told to use it every time we started the engine. I guess it didn't have glow plugs?

Hi Bill,
It sounds like the same stuff. Did your 'Quick-start' pong of ether?

I can always remember making my own model aero-fuel and ether was always an ingredient

John

 

[television]

The whole point at the start of this thread, when I said that I blanked off part of my rad, if you have the intelligence to do this, then you also should have the intelligence to keep your eyes on the temp gauge when in traffic for long periods. The car makers go to the trouble of fitting these things so use them, thats what they are for.

Having lived in temperatures of -50c it does not feel that cold, and it is not what you might expect. Interestingly in Sweden where you are not allowed to leave the engine running for more than 1 minute, the buses never turn off the engine at these these temps, and many lorries do not run as there are limits as to how much anti freeze that can be added to the fuel.

At the same temp in Calgary I had a sweude coat on and the button holes all snapped, all of the shops there are under ground, Driving on that hard packed snow was horrible and shook the car to bits

 

[maddog]

For those that watched the recent documtary series on truckers working up close to the Artic Circle we witnessed first hand the use of radiator blinds. These lorries were operating in temperatures sometimes dropping as low as -32f, I dread to think of the wind chill and also night temperatures, but we witnessed the alarms going off when a truck with these blinds OVERHEATED! That to me spoke volumes and yes there might be a place for tampedring with a modern radiator, but go into this with your eyes wide open. Diesel engines will take longer to get to their operating temperature and that is something owners must accept. If they are genuinely concerned then the thermostat as already stated, should be the second port of call 1st port bering to check your coolant levels.

Jihn

I spent a year working in Labrador, Northern Canada.

Temps went down to -40 (c) in winter and as low as -93 with the wind chill factor , whilst we didnt use blinds on the radiators but we did need to plug the cars in if you parked , this used to power a small heater around the battery, in the sump and in the interior.

Large vehicles needed to parked indoors , diesels were very rare most things ran on petrol and in the extreme cold even they could have problems.


If you did switch something off in the cold like i did once , you ran the risk of not being able to start it , i recall having the starter motor freeze to the flywheel once it took less than 5 minutes for that to happen

 

[glojo]

I spent a year working in Labrador, Northern Canada.

Temps went down to -40 (c) in winter and as low as -93 with the wind chill factor , whilst we didnt use blinds on the radiators but we did need to plug the cars in if you parked , this used to power a small heater around the battery, in the sump and in the interior.

Thanks for clarifying this. I am only repeating the figures mentioned on the documentary, but visually this did not match what my eyes were seeing. I would suggest the reality was much, much nearer your figures.

Regards
John