The EV fact thread

[markjay]

Pardon ? There are 1800 Tesla’s over 10 years old on Autotrader? Surely some mistake?

And…

Haven’t half the Tesla’s in the country been sold within the last three years?

Over a period of 10 years (since they arrived in the UK), not cars aged over 10 years old.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I don't think this applies to EV batteries though - I suspect that the majority will either have been replaced under warranty, or at the insurer's expense.

Older EVs out of warranty, and the occasional physical battery damage not covered by warranty or insurance, will account for the scrapyard purchases - but I doubt this will be the majority? I do agree, however, that the mention of a new battery (or a new ICE) isn't necessarily a selling point - when I see an ad that says "££££ spend on [this and that]" I don't feel an urge to purchase said motor

I was referring to ICE engine replacements being from scrapyards, not new engines.

 

[ALFAitalia]

The EV owners could use a breakers parts too....

EV Breakers | Electric Vehicle Parts | EV Specialists Car Sales | United Kingdom

EV Breakers not only dismantle electric vehicles. We sell second hand EV's (BEV's PHEV's) & supply charging stations for installation at home or work.

www.evbreakers.com

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Over a period of 10 years (since they arrived in the UK), not cars aged over 10 years old.

Exactly, worthless stats which will be skewed by the newness of the sample frame

Tsk tsk ….

In other news VW Golf Mk7’s have less engine trouble than Golf Mk2’s

 

[ALFAitalia]

I bet they don't!

 

[Deleted member 55947]

So we have cheaper EV’s coming over from China, but why are we yet to hear from Greta and her cronies about the Chinese opening coal mines to help power their production?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I bet they don't!

There’s a coincidence. I thought the same thing as I typed it…

But probably…(They are three decades older…)

 

[philnewmerc]

Pardon ? There are 1800 Tesla’s over 10 years old on Autotrader? Surely some mistake?

And…

Haven’t half the Tesla’s in the country been sold within the last three years?

And…

Gresham’s law points out that faulty vehicles are more likely to be up for sale. Good vehicles will remain with their owners

And

Creating a percentage out of just two units failing is fraught with error. One less and you’ve halved the rate.

I said "over ten years" meaning over a period of ten years, not over ten years old.

The cars are not faulty. Unlike an ice car a new battery might be appealing to a buyer.

I don't think Gresham's law applies as they're not faulty.

The numbers are just data, nothing more, so if there's 2 there's 2, no twisting of facts there.

 

[markjay]

So we have cheaper EV’s coming over from China, but why are we yet to hear from Greta and her cronies about the Chinese opening coal mines to help power their production?

From the Aussie TV show Utopia (Australia selling Coal to China):

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[clk320x]

Just added 48kWh on supercharger and total session energy is just over 50kWh so pretty much 96% efficient…

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I said "over ten years" meaning over a period of ten years, not over ten years old.
The cars are not faulty. Unlike an ice car a new battery might be appealing to a buyer.
I don't think Gresham's law applies as they're not faulty.
The numbers are just data, nothing more, so if there's 2 there's 2, no twisting of facts there.

Yes, numbers are data.
And you're misusing the data to make a dubious claim.
To compare ICE to EV you need comparable data.
With EV's so new, and ICE more than a century old, you need to be compare like for like data.

And Gresham's law does apply to people advertising vehicles that have had significant work.
If vehicles had been reliable, they're less likely to be up for sale. It's the very essence of Gresham's law.

Gresham's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[markjay]

....If vehicles had been reliable, they're less likely to be up for sale.....

How do you differentiate between cars sold to dealer via auction after they came off a lease, and cars traded-in by previous private owners because they were unreliable, just by looking at the ads? I think that the assumption that most cars for sale are on the forecourt because a previous owner found them to be unreasonable, is a stretch.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

How do you differentiate between cars sold to dealer via auction after they came off a lease, and cars traded-in by previous private owners because they were unreliable, just by looking at the ads? I think that the assumption that most cars for sale are on the forecourt because a previous owner found them to be unreasonable, is a stretch.

I didn't assume that. You just have
I just called out the false analysis of 1800 Tesla Autotrader ads as being a representative frame for a sample of EV reliability compared to ICE.

This was the quote:
"Autotrader experiment. Just out of curiosity: "new battery" in search box in Autotrader:
Tesla shows 8 cars out of of 1800 => 0.44 % failure over 10 years.
Nissan electric vehicles: 2 out of 164 => 1.2 % failure over 13 years
A similar search for "new engine" (for all petrol and diesel cars) results in 0.18 % failure, so at least half as many failures."

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Now that I've hung up my shopping bags, let's talk about this daft claim about batteries being a substantial element of the cost of a vehicle. This was the claim:

"For those who still believe EVs are cheaper than ICE, the following from Ineos - who actually manufacture vehicles:
''the cost of a battery is "three times" the cost of a combustion engine.''

Think of everything you've ever had a significant part in selling or distributing. Is any component the major element of price?

You buy a Mercedes SUV. How much is tax, how much is sales& marketing, physical distribution in the UK, shipping it over from the Southern US, production down the line, bodywork, screens, paint, electronic control systems, seating, wiring, and on and on and on.

The engine & gearbox or the batteries simply can't be a major part of the price when you take the ribbon off the thing at the dealership. Nowhere near.

 

[tode]

I think you're confusing "a major part of the cost" and "the major part of the cost"

 

[BTB 500]

total session energy is just over 50kWh so pretty much 96% efficient…

... according to Tesla. Maybe it's correct, but I'd personally like to see some independent verification. Pretty much impossible though unless you happen to have your own supercharger on a dedicated supply circuit that you can monitor. IIRC if you pay for supercharging that's based on kWh gained by the car, and not kWh consumed from the grid. So it's unlikely any owner would ever query Tesla's claimed charging efficiency as it's irrelevant in terms of what they pay.

I'd assume the cost of using a standard public charger is based on the kWh it consumes from the grid though, as that's what the operator of it would have to pay for

 

[Flyinspanner]

What's the charger availability like at the supermarket or in town?

Avis, and Hertz are rubbish at tech handovers. You can see punters scrabbling in the car parks to work out "how the heck" with EV's, PHEV's, and non-CarPlay ICE. It's going to backfire on the rental firms.

Hi,

There were two free apps to download which would show you nearby chargers.
(Avis handed out the app info but I never had to use it) I did see chargers at a big Carrefour, and in car parks.

There was free parking for EVs in Palma, bays with blue outlines. I just plugged it in free each night at the hotel, as I later found some other chargers on the resort.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Hi,

There were two free apps to download which would show you nearby chargers.
(Avis handed out the app info but I never had to use it) I did see chargers at a big Carrefour, and in car parks.

There was free parking for EVs in Palma, bays with blue outlines. I just plugged it in free each night at the hotel, as I later found some other chargers on the resort.

So not as bad as you’d expect on an island, but a lousy handover.

In France the first hour on a Carrefour charger’s free, and after that it’s not painfully expensive. But a free hour while picking up the wine and crisps covers most island life.

 

[markjay]

..Avis, and Hertz are rubbish at tech handovers. You can see punters scrabbling in the car parks to work out "how the heck" with EV's, PHEV's, and non-CarPlay ICE. It's going to backfire on the rental firms.

I remember the days when car rental staff used to have the car brought over, and they then would go to the car with you and explain how the controls work.

Haven't seen this in the last 30 years though......

 

[clk320x]

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