The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

Interesting 'real world' EV group test by What Car? looking at range from 100% charge till the car actually stopped moving. This was at 11C ambient (not really 'winter') with some wind/rain/etc., aircon set to 21C, and a mix of speeds (with some regen braking) on each 16 mile lap of the test route:



The results were:



The Tesla Model 3 did pretty well, but this was the latest Long Range + 18" Aero wheels with a claimed range of 421 miles. In reality you'd never drive to 0% then keep going till it died, so perhaps 270 miles at best ... less if you wanted to stop with 10-15% capacity left.

The Lexus RZ got absolutely panned.

One other interesting thing was running two VW ID.7s that were identical apart from one having a heat pump (a £1050 option on this car) and the other not. There was an improvement in efficiency, but they worked out that from a financial POV the payback point was over half a million miles if you charged overnight at home (so basically you'd never recover the money). Even if you always charged at 79p per kWh it was 85k miles before you'd break even. That could change at other outside temperatures though.

As an aside the efficiency/cost figures calculated for each car at the end all assumed 100% charging efficiency

Full video here:

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[markjay]

Interesting 'real world' EV group test by What Car? looking at range from 100% charge till the car actually stopped moving. This was at 11C ambient (not really 'winter') with some wind/rain/etc., aircon set to 21C, and a mix of speeds (with some regen braking) on each 16 mile lap of the test route:

View attachment 153979

The results were:

View attachment 153978

The Tesla Model 3 did pretty well, but this was the latest Long Range + 18" Aero wheels with a claimed range of 421 miles. In reality you'd never drive to 0% then keep going till it died, so perhaps 270 miles at best ... less if you wanted to stop with 10-15% capacity left.

The Lexus RZ got absolutely panned.

One other interesting thing was running two VW ID.7s that were identical apart from one having a heat pump (a £1050 option on this car) and the other not. There was an improvement in efficiency, but they worked out that from a financial POV the payback point was over half a million miles if you charged overnight at home (so basically you'd never recover the money). Even if you always charged at 79p per kWh it was 85k miles before you'd break even. That could change at other outside temperatures though.

As an aside the efficiency/cost figures calculated for each car at the end all assumed 100% charging efficiency

Full video here:

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

It shouldn't read 'Claimed range', but 'WLTP range'. The two are not necessarily the same.

 

[BTB 500]

It shouldn't read 'Claimed range', but 'WLTP range'. The two are not necessarily the same.

Agreed. And the 421 mile range claimed by Tesla for the Model 3 Long Range with 18" wheels (as tested above) is their estimate, not an official WLTP figure.

 

[clk320x]

I drove a Model 3 Refresh today, it started at 100% SOC and I did 40 miles to 90% - by my maths that’s pretty close to 400 miles.

I was also using heating at 21c, heated wheel, heated seat etc…

Unbelievable car - exceptionally quiet as the glass is much thicker.

I can’t see 99% of the public ever needing anymore range than this.

 

[ALFAitalia]

.... and you missed the most important bit..... nowhere near as ugly as the last one.... especially at the front....

 

[Mactech]

Very easy to validate if you're charging from a domestic mains socket - power meters that log kWh are cheap and easily available. Random example from Screwfix here:

View attachment 153498

Energenie ENER007 Energy Saving Power Meter Socket - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Monitor and measure the energy use and costs of running household appliances. Simply plug into a powered mains socket and then plug any 13A rated appliance in. Discover which appliances use most energy, helping you lower power bills and reduce emissions. FREE next...

www.screwfix.com

But similar ones sold all over Amazon, eBay, etc. as well.

So I have run the charging of the i3 through the Meross smart plug I got on February 21st. It tells me I have used 48 kWh to charge the car until the end of the month. This correlates with what the house meter is telling me. The car says in has received 47kWh usable energy in that period.
Whilst I have no facilities to validate these readings definitely, and we are working with just whole numbers of kWh, it does indicate that the charging efficiency is not a disaster
I will continue to log the energy in/out over the longer term and see if can match some of the more pessimistic efficiency figures….but I hope not to

 

[BTB 500]

So I have run the charging of the i3 through the Meross smart plug I got on February 21st. It tells me I have used 48 kWh to charge the car until the end of the month. This correlates with what the house meter is telling me. The car says in has received 47kWh usable energy in that period.
Whilst I have no facilities to validate these readings definitely, and we are working with just whole numbers of kWh, it does indicate that the charging efficiency is not a disaster
I will continue to log the energy in/out over the longer term and see if can match some of the more pessimistic efficiency figures….but I hope not to

Thanks for the update - keep us posted!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

O

So I have run the charging of the i3 through the Meross smart plug I got on February 21st. It tells me I have used 48 kWh to charge the car until the end of the month. This correlates with what the house meter is telling me. The car says in has received 47kWh usable energy in that period.
Whilst I have no facilities to validate these readings definitely, and we are working with just whole numbers of kWh, it does indicate that the charging efficiency is not a disaster
I will continue to log the energy in/out over the longer term and see if can match some of the more pessimistic efficiency figures….but I hope not to

(Scratches head). Isn’t that a fair few miles in just over a week, for your little runabout?

 

[Mactech]

O


(Scratches head). Isn’t that a fair few miles in just over a week, for your little runabout?

It's certainly more than I would normally feed the car over that period, but there are two good reasons for that. Firstly the car had less than 25% at the start of the period and secondly my wife has been ferrying a recovering friend to hospital visits recently.
The sunshine levels dictate when in gets fed, but it is still to complete 3000 miles in the 7 months we have had it.
I intend to try it on some March sunshine for the first time today. Wonder if I should add a squirt of electro-redex to that

 

[E55BOF]

Wonder if I should add a squirt of electro-redex to that

Might be a good idea, if this item from across the pond is correct:

BMW i3 Owners Are Faced With Insane Battery Replacement Costs

Despite its popularity on the secondhand market, BMW i3 owners face staggering repair bills, with one quoted over $70,000 for a new batte...

electricvehicleforums.com

 

[Mactech]

Might be a good idea, if this item from across the pond is correct:

BMW i3 Owners Are Faced With Insane Battery Replacement Costs

Despite its popularity on the secondhand market, BMW i3 owners face staggering repair bills, with one quoted over $70,000 for a new batte...

electricvehicleforums.com

Yes, and aftermarket ones costing about 4% of that.....
I doubt anyone in their right mind would ever pay that. Sounds like scare tactics or 'we don't want to do it'

 

[Mactech]

I think I have now understood the apparent totally efficient charging of my BMW i3.......
Both the monitoring of energy in and the car itself agree that I fed the car with 14kWh of energy today whilst the sun was out and the majority of the power was coming from the sun.





Even the house confirms that's what as gone in to the car!
However the car says that I have charged the battery from 52% to 82%. ie 30%.
If I use the claimed battery capacity of 42 kWa, then that's 12.6 kWa, making the charging 90% efficient.
If I use the usable battery amount of 38 kWa, then that's 11.4 kWa, making the charging 81% efficient.

That makes a great deal more sense than having 100% charging efficiency

 

[SmartAmg]

I think I have now understood the apparent totally efficient charging of my BMW i3.......
Both the monitoring of energy in and the car itself agree that I fed the car with 14kWh of energy today whilst the sun was out and the majority of the power was coming from the sun.

View attachment 154013

View attachment 154014

Even the house confirms that's what as gone Ito the car!
However the car says that I have charged the battery from 52% to 82%. ie 30%.
If I use the claimed battery capacity of 42 kWa, then that's 12.6 kWa, making the charging 90% efficient.
If I use the usable battery amount of 38 kWa, then that's 11.4 kWa, making the charging 81% efficient.

That makes a great deal more sense than having 100% charging efficiency

In English, please.

 

[markjay]

In English, please.

Him pay two Pounds for driving 50 miles.....

That’s 4p per mile in new money.

 

[SmartAmg]

Him pay two Pounds for driving 50 miles.....

That’s 4p per mile in new money.

That's better.

 

[Mactech]

In English, please.

It means that not all the electrical energy you put in the car is available in the battery to drive the car!

....but it's still a whole bunch more efficient than any ICE vehicle.

 

[Mactech]

Him pay two Pounds for driving 50 miles.....

That’s 4p per mile in new money.

Well yes and no! The cost per kWa is something I have entered and assume 50% 'free' solar power and 50% paid for from the grid.
On a sunny summer charge, it will cost me zippo! Today I estimate that 75% of the charge was solar.....

 

[BTB 500]

I think I have now understood the apparent totally efficient charging of my BMW i3.......
Both the monitoring of energy in and the car itself agree that I fed the car with 14kWh of energy today whilst the sun was out and the majority of the power was coming from the sun.

Even the house confirms that's what as gone Ito the car!
However the car says that I have charged the battery from 52% to 82%. ie 30%.
If I use the claimed battery capacity of 42 kWa, then that's 12.6 kWa, making the charging 90% efficient.
If I use the usable battery amount of 38 kWa, then that's 11.4 kWa, making the charging 81% efficient.

That makes a great deal more sense than having 100% charging efficiency

So the car is reporting mains kWh used while charging rather than kWh of charge added. That makes sense (it's what you are - normally! - paying for after all), and around 20% charging loss on a granny cable is in line with ADAC's testing Germany (more than that for some cars, less for others).

As an aside, one of the findings in the What Car? group test I posted the other day was that the miles per kWh figures shown by many of the cars at the end of the test didn't match the distance travelled divided by the kWh used. Most were quite close, but the two BYDs both did 3.1 miles per kWh versus OBD figures of 3.9 and 3.6!

Yellow figure is actual miles/kWh, white is what the car displayed:

 

[SmartAmg]

It means that not all the electrical energy you put in the car is available in the battery to drive the car!

....but it's still a whole bunch more efficient than any ICE vehicle.

That's even better.

 

[Mactech]

So the car is reporting mains kWh used while charging rather than kWh of charge added. That makes sense (it's what you are - normally! - paying for after all), and around 20% charging loss on a granny cable is in line with ADAC's testing Germany (more than that for some cars, less for others).

As an aside, one of the findings in the What Car? group test I posted the other day was that the miles per kWh figures shown by many of the cars at the end of the test didn't match the distance travelled divided by the kWh used. Most were quite close, but the two BYDs both did 3.1 miles per kWh versus OBD figures of 3.9 and 3.6!

Yellow figure is actual miles/kWh, white is what the car displayed:

View attachment 154020

Interesting! About as well calibrated as most vehicles speedometers then! Glad to see that both BMW and Tesla are telling the 'truth'
There really is no excuse for not being able to get a good correlation on a purely electrical instrument.
The i3 has been returning figures of 3.9 over the winter, but was back up to 4.4 over the weekend, but still not back to well above 5 during the warmer summer months.
But are these figures working on the energy that the battery has in it, or the amount of energy required to charge the batteries?