The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

If I lived in a house with a garage, I would very much enjoy a classic or two to maintain, restore, and take out on special occasions.

But as my daily drive, I'd be worried about taking the children and grandchildren for a long drive in a car with outdated safety systems.

So much progress has been made in passive protection, e.g. crumble zones, multiple airbags, pyrotechnic seat belts, etc, not to mention active safety features e.g. ESP, collision avoidance, blind spot assist, etc.

We had a 1997 Toyota Previa from new for over 25 years, and kept it in Europe. Great car that never went wrong. I decided to get rid of it when the grandchildren were born, no way am I driving the kids on Europe's motorways with a car with a 25+ years old safety design.

Have you moved house because its safety systems and build quality is not to current standards?

Or at least rewired?

 

[Pontoneer]

But if a car manufacturer can no longer supply replacement keys (for example) for a particular model it's unlikely they'd release proprietary/sensitive information on how their remote locking and immobiliser protocols work. Without that how would a third party be able to provide a key that would work with an individual car, even if a physical key could be obtained/constructed?

My keys are proper mechanical ones and , besides being readily available from the dealer for £28 last I bought one , can be cut at any key cutting place

 

[markjay]

Have you moved house because its safety systems and build quality is not to current standards?

Or at least rewired?

I would, if it was as simple and easy as changing a car.

 

[Mactech]

Anybody seen the plot? ....or the thread title?


PS I loved my 124.....back in the '80's!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Anybody seen the plot? ....or the thread title?

PS I loved my 124.....back in the '80's!

You're not accusing us of following the plot, are you?

Excellent day trip today. Inspired by your love of the Macan, but... shall we say... sidetracked a little....

£30 worth of petrol, but would have only been £4, had it been electricity from a home charger.

 

[SpikyMikey]

You're not accusing us of following the plot, are you?

Excellent day trip today. Inspired by your love of the Macan, but... shall we say... sidetracked a little....

£30 worth of petrol, but would have only been £4, had it been electricity from a home charger.

Sooooo MikeinWimbers.......what have you bought?

 

[BTB 500]

Most reviews conclude the 24 is better ... but still not good.

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A long but pretty balanced (IMO) review of the latest Model 3 here:

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Lots he liked but some stuff he didn't (indicators, phantom braking, complex/distracting screen).

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Sooooo MikeinWimbers.......what have you bought?

Nothing ... as yet....

 

[Mactech]

You're not accusing us of following the plot, are you?

Excellent day trip today. Inspired by your love of the Macan, but... shall we say... sidetracked a little....

£30 worth of petrol, but would have only been £4, had it been electricity from a home charger.

You could read whatever you want into that coded message, but I'm glad you had a great day trip ...but you could have done it for even less if it was summer and you had excess solar energy.....

 

[markjay]

A long but pretty balanced (IMO) review of the latest Model 3 here:

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Lots he liked but some stuff he didn't (indicators, phantom braking, complex/distracting screen).

A colleague at work had a Model X, and I experienced first hand the phantom braking as a passenger. My IONIQ 5 does brake on occasion in circumstances where I judged braking to be unnecessary, but It's not the same as I've experienced in the Tesla, because with the IONIQ 5 I could see what triggered it, usually a cyclist or a pedestrian that the car was 'overprotective' about, while with the Tesla it's anyone's guess what complex trajectory the car worked out and who was it trying to protect. But, then, Tesla's driver aids tech is far more sophisticated and complex than that of other cars, to begin with.

Then, my colleague got a Model 3, and I am still perplexed at how you can operate a vehicle with a computer screen replacing both the instrument cluster and the dashboard switch panel. It wouldn't work for me... But given the sheer number of Model 3 that I see on the roads, I guess (some) people do like it.

 

[Will]

But if a car manufacturer can no longer supply replacement keys (for example) for a particular model it's unlikely they'd release proprietary/sensitive information on how their remote locking and immobiliser protocols work. Without that how would a third party be able to provide a key that would work with an individual car, even if a physical key could be obtained/constructed?

When MB launched the electronic keys back in the late 90s/early 00s it was widely considered that no-one could copy these or code new ones to the car.

Now a guy in a van can make you a new key in a matter of minutes.

There’s always a way to do things, if the demand is there and the economics stack up someone will develop a solution.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The battery packs in vehicles are several orders of magnitude greater than those in other items

Of course they are, but people use and throw away batteries in quantities several orders of magnitude greater. Which accounts for the largest amount of natural resources which go to landfill, an EV battery or the sum total of batteries used in everything else over the life cycle of the EV battery?

 

[markjay]

When MB launched the electronic keys back in the late 90s/early 00s it was widely considered that no-one could copy these or code new ones to the car.

Now a guy in a van can make you a new key in a matter of minutes.

There’s always a way to do things, if the demand is there and the economics stack up someone will develop a solution.

The same was said about magnetic cards when they were first introduced in the seventies...

 

[Pontoneer]

Methinks you should go further on this. High mileages are MUCH easier in the world of internet information, repair, recycling and easy international EBaying (

No-one needs to climb on top of a car in a scrap yard, screwdriver, hammer and pliers in hand to pull out bits for their cherished older vehicle.

Pour a cup of tea, pull out the laptop, and in minutes you can not only order the used part for delivery to your front door but also you can look up how to take apart and fit the wretched thing.

Pixels playing up in your BMW 750iL, as they all do? No problem, not even a remove replace: look up the guy who can fix your display for you.

I do tend to either buy parts on eBay , and Eastern European sellers are often both cost effective and knowledgeable - people in these countries already have good networks of both customers and suppliers - you can often get stuff there that isn’t available elsewhere.

Otherwise , I have a network of pals here who either rescue abandoned cars , or else we break up non viable ones to keep others going , or to stockpile parts for ourselves

Rarely do I buy from commercial breakers

 

[Pontoneer]

Of course they are, but people use and throw away batteries in quantities several orders of magnitude greater. Which accounts for the largest amount of natural resources which go to landfill, an EV battery or the sum total of batteries used in everything else over the life cycle of the EV battery?

People throwing away AA or AAA cells would have to throw away a helluva lot to equate to a vehicle battery , besides these consumer units tend to be NiCad or NiMh cells rather than Li-Ion cells .

Power tool or video batteries are both significantly larger , and in the case of the latter , with a broadcast camera costing a similar amount to a new car ( £60k upwards ) they aren’t as commonplace as domestic products .



The battery packs I use on my camcorders are each about equivalent to a motorcycle battery ( two per camera ) and I carry about 25 of them . These batteries are uniquely flight approved and can be carried as hold luggage , part of why they are so expensive , and half a dozen of these cost as much as an EV battery .

I spend a lot more on video kit than I do on cars . Cars are cheap .

 

[Pontoneer]

Have you moved house because its safety systems and build quality is not to current standards?

Or at least rewired?

I have both wired new build houses , and either extended wiring in or rewired older buildings in the past . I’m no longer current with IEE regs so no longer do any more than small adaptations or repairs , and always refer to others if I’m not 100% certain .

 

[Pontoneer]

Anybody seen the plot? ....or the thread title?


PS I loved my 124.....back in the '80's!

I had my first one in the early 90s , when it was about 2-1/2 years old , and after more than a decade of driving 123s , 201s , 116s and earlier models .

 

[Pontoneer]

You're not accusing us of following the plot, are you?

Excellent day trip today. Inspired by your love of the Macan, but... shall we say... sidetracked a little....

£30 worth of petrol, but would have only been £4, had it been electricity from a home charger.

Similar in my 124 as a £75-£80 fill up takes me around 400 miles . Not hugely worse I’d guess than your figures , despite 30 or 40 years of ‘progress’ …

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Similar in my 124 as a £75-£80 fill up takes me around 400 miles . Not hugely worse I’d guess than your figures , despite 30 or 40 years of ‘progress’ …

exactly. What benefit Bluetooth, ABS and diesel emissions when you’re cruising through a deserted Wiltshire with barely another car in sight, and AirPods playing the voice of Jodie Kidd?

 

[Pontoneer]

ABS goes back much further than W124s : M-B first introduced it as an option on the W116 450SEL 6.9 in 1975 , but they had been experimenting with mechanical anti lock brakes , in collaboration with Bosch , much , much longer .

After Dunlop introduced their Maxarret system for aircraft ( as a way to reduce landing gear punctures upon landing ) in the 1950s ( a system which was later offered on the Jensen FF in the 1960s ) , Merceedes-Benz , and specifically Rudi Uhlenhaut , immediately saw the potential for automotive safety ( remember it was he who masterminded and introduced the revolutionary air-brake on the W196 399 SLR in the 1950s as a way of reducing fade on the then state of the art Alfin drum systems , where the front drums were inboard to reduce unsprung mass ; much as Alfa Romeo did with their inboard front discs on the Alfasuds of the 1970s with the unfortunate side effect of discs shattering due to insufficient airflow ) , and , along with Bosch and ATE , Mercedes-Benz developed a mechanical anti lock brake system , which worked on valves actuated by centrifugal force within the hub of each wheel , and had prototypes running on the Ponton and Fintail series in the late 1950s and early 1960s ; further developments involved the use of sensors to compare the rotational speeds of individual wheels , and of locking up , but the system was not considered reliable or safe enough to be offered to the public until the early 1970s , with the '6,9' being the first car to get it ( and even then it was a £1500 option ) , the system being quickly rolled out as an option thereafter into W123 , W201 , R107 series at least ; I'm not certain , but I think the W126 was the first range to get ABS as standard ( and yours truly wrote to Mercedes-Benz suggesting that when ABS was activated the brake lights should flash , giving additional warning to drivers of other following vehicles without ABS , that the system was active and they needed to take care - I never got a reply to that particular suggestion but know that it was implemented on some models not long after ; other suggestions did get positive responses and sometimes gifts ) , and thereafter it was standard across the range . I remember my first ( B reg ) 190E not having ABS and still relying on cadence braking to stop safely in adverse conditions with it . Mercedes-Benz , after developing the system in collaboration with Bosch were quick to freely licence it to all other manufacturers , and to this day all other manufacturers vehicles equipped with ABS are so equipped under licence from Mercedes-Benz .