The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[flowrider]

I have to disagree with those members who believe in a conspiracy theory involving a clandestine masterplan behind the current dilemma between WTO rules and an extension to article 50 (given that it looks like May's WA won't be happening by end of this month).

Using Occame's Razor... I prefer the much simpler explanation that we are where we are because Brexit is handled by people who couldn't organise a p***-up in a brewery.

I agree, I don't think our present crop of MP's are capable of plotting this debacle, I think it much more likely that it is incompetence which has got us to where we are.

 

[Scott_F]

Using Occame's Razor... I prefer the much simpler explanation that we are where we are because Brexit is handled by people who couldn't organise a p***-up in a brewery.

Whereas these two look like they know exactly what they're doing....

 

[Nat]

Whereas these two look like they know exactly what they're doing....

Couldn't the same be said about these fine outstanding members?

 

[ioweddie]

nicked from the joked section:

 

[Alfie]

Couldn't the same be said about these fine outstanding members?

They are certainly paying attention to Sajid Javid who has more brains in his little toe than those opposite have collectively.

 

[Bellow]

Pretty rich attacking Labour when the Tories still have Grayling on the front bench.
£33m of tax payers money handed to Eurostar to prevent public release of the documentation relating to the Seaborne debacle. Bargain!

''The Sajid''. Can't tell a dinghy from a national emergency. Perhaps there's a book he can read - one that Grayling removed from a prison....

 

[Nat]

Sajid was demonstrating the use of the all new MP friendly and "state of the art technology" gadget that helps them connect with each other.

 

[Alfie]

Pretty rich attacking Labour when the Tories still have Grayling on the front bench.
£33m of tax payers money handed to Eurostar to prevent public release of the documentation relating to the Seaborne debacle. Bargain!

''The Sajid''. Can't tell a dinghy from a national emergency. Perhaps there's a book he can read - one that Grayling removed from a prison....

I agree the Tories are in complete disarray and certainly some are beyond stupid, Grayling a good case in point. However, Tory stupidity pales into insigiificance when compared to the Labour front bench.

 

[grober]

BMW may shift Mini and engine work from UK in no-deal Brexit

Toyota and BMW warn on no-deal Brexit

Both interviews surfaced at the current GENEVA motor show.

 

[AMGeed]

Don't worry. Labour have their usual plan in place.

 

[Swotty]

Interesting and informative article here:

https://brexitcentral.com/deal-no-deal-heres-brexit-cannot-stopped/

Howarth is a Brexiteer but sets out the current position objectively. May is trying to buy enough votes in the HoC to offset the opposition of the ERG in order to drive her capitulation document through.

 

[markjay]

BMW may shift Mini and engine work from UK in no-deal Brexit

Toyota and BMW warn on no-deal Brexit

Both interviews surfaced at the current GENEVA motor show.

Thanks. That much is obvious... I don't think many people actually believe that no-deal Brexit is a good thing in itself. Definitely this was never the intention of majority of Leave promoters prior to the referendum. I believe that most people accept that a good-deal Brexit - if it was ever possible to achieve - would have been the best outcome and certainly better than a no-deal Brexit.

I think the question now is which is the lesser of three evils - no-deal Brexit, bad-deal Brexit, or an extension. Neither are very palatable, but then so was staying in the EU.

Was there ever a good way of achieving a good Brexit? Did we miss a turn somewhere? Or was it never there?

 

[Scott_F]

Couldn't the same be said about these fine outstanding members?

Not really - they have had no say in our negotiations with the EU.

Thanks. That much is obvious... I don't think many people actually believe that no-deal Brexit is a good thing in itself. ?

Unfortunately, some people still actually do believe this - including a few forum members. And nor will they be swayed by major employers making it very clear that they will up sticks and move jobs elsewhere in the event of no deal being reached.

 

[Dryce]

Was there ever a good way of achieving a good Brexit? Did we miss a turn somewhere? Or was it never there?

Depends on what you count as a good Brexit.

Nationally we seem to have lost the plot in dealing with it constructively.

BMW is a big business that sells cars we don't actually need - the majority in numbers and value are imported. The UK market for their product is significant.

So we might infer BMW does not want a no-deal. It and other German manufacturers really really really really don't want it. Unlike MB and VAG because of Mini BMW actually makes volllume cars in the UK so feels it has some leverage.

If I was in the UK government I'd be making some murmerings about applying the same sort barriers that the Chinese apply to BMW if it looked like the UK was being disadvantaged by this category of carmakers. Bear in mind that you don't need to use WTO tariffs to beat up on luxury car makers.

But the UK parliament and a chunk of the media don't understand the concept of taking such a posture. So they are ripe for BMW to make one sided no-deal inferences without any consideration for other possible consequences.

 

[m80]

I think the question now is which is the lesser of three evils - no-deal Brexit, bad-deal Brexit, or an extension. Neither are very palatable, but then so was staying in the EU.

Was there ever a good way of achieving a good Brexit? Did we miss a turn somewhere? Or was it never there?

No we didn't miss a turn, what we didn't realise until, well many still haven't, is that the eu were never going to permit a good deal.
As said previously, we need to be punished to deter other members from considering the same action to be feasible for them.
The eu strategy also has the advantage of a UK self induced fear causing the collapse of any national cohesion and with it any strength to have a meaningful approach to negotiations.

My belief in the advantage of a No Deal outcome is strengthened because:
We then have a decisive outcome and true negotiations can commence.
As the future showes what will be a still well aligned situation with the eu business can invest and build with far less uncertainty.
Our Civil Servants can get on with their job and allow Parliament to try and see if they are still capable of theirs, with less distraction.

I know the 2 prats driniking beer and eu Guinness said it would be easy, and we could sort of turn the clock back by cancelling Brexit, but I don't want to. The eu has shown its true nature over the last 2 years, nasty bullies is an insulting but still gentle description. There is far too much power and arrogance in Brussels.

 

[Swotty]

If you're one of the 17.4 million who voted to leave, enjoy this .... you'll like it!

If you voted remain, you may also like the humour.

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[Nicebutdim]

If you're one of the 17.4 million who voted to leave, enjoy this .... you'll like it!

If you voted remain, you may also like the humour.

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Tremendous. It’s a shame they don’t hear us.

 

[Nat]

Not really - they have had no say in our negotiations with the EU.

Are you really saying Labour hasn't had any say or involvement what so ever in the Brexit negotiations?

 

[Scott_F]

Are you really saying Labour hasn't had any say or involvement what so ever in the Brexit negotiations?

I'm saying that they haven't been in Brussels attempting to negotiate with the EU and are only now being courted by the PM as she seeks cross-party support for her deal.

 

[geraldrobins]

If you're one of the 17.4 million who voted to leave, enjoy this .... you'll like it!

If you voted remain, you may also like the humour.

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Amusing yes. It highlights Remainers concerns but does nothing to challenge them nor claim any advantage in leaving.