Blue Efficiency injector recall?

[igk1]

Ah OK so presumably the "new better" injectors on my car will be v4 as well. It's beginning to come together thanks to everyone's posts here.
I wonder if/when the recall will be announced.

 

[w124coupe]

Just spoken with my dealership and they have just told me exactly the same regarding version 5 injectors, those fitted to mine which I will collect tomorrow are v4. The v5's are not expected to be available until a few weeks and are likly to be fitted to the German market first as they are likely to be in short supply. I'm hoping that the ones fitted in my model don't become faulty but if they do I believe they will be replaced with the latest version if and when avavilable. Here's hoping.

And what about the "ECU softwre update"?

 

[Merc Owner 2B]

And what about the "ECU softwre update"?

My contact is under the impression that the ECU update is for the new injectors only and will not work with, or help, earlier ones. There have been no instructions to upload new software until the new v5 injectors are fitted. Which leads me to think that they will obviously have to change them as a set and so in the future they will have to upgrade ALL cars previously made.

 

[Royston Vasey]

And what about the "ECU softwre update"?

I don't know, sorry. I have to assume that it was updated at the same time.

I am now looking at my situation with a positive outloook, "what will be, will be". I only have an issue post anything happening and the way it is dealt with, for example do I get a like-for-like replacement, I believe this problem is affecting the rental companies as well. In addition I also understand that this issue is affecting BMW and Audi "Blue Efficiency" type diesel engine systems as well.

As a matter of interest what does ECU stand for as there appears to be some confusion on the net.

Engine Control Unit. Now I know doh!

 

[lolacarrascal]

I had my 1st injector failure at the weekend on my c220 cdi. My Service Manager has been in regular contact since then and advised me today that he has now been secured approval from Mercedes Technical to replace all 4 injectors and that one of the 'new special injector replacement kits' has been allocated to my car and will to be despatched today. My expectation is that I will be back on the road by Mon/Tue next week at the latest.

Whilst disappointed with the injector problem, which unfortunately I wasn't aware of before buying the car, I would be content if the outcome is as I have been assured. The SM also indicated that I would be compensated by way of a complimentary service when next due.

Sh1t happens as they say, but so far I have been encouraged with how I have been dealt with. Proof of the pudding of course will be in the eating - I await with eager anticipation!

 

[splang]

This is quite a relief having just put a deposit down.
My car is arriving in the UK from the factory on the 18th December - do you reckon it would have v4 or v5 injectors?

Cheers,
Steve

 

[mobiledreams12]

Injector problem has made German press:

My German isn't great - but of the 20,000 220/250 CDI BEs sold in Germany, 4,500 are in the workshop with injector issues.

It goes on to say that Mercedes and Delphi finally have a fix which is being rolled out at the start of next week. In the meantime, Mercedes have provided temporary replacement cars to those affected.

 

[steve_acp]

I have an E350 Sport Coupe (apologies to anyone who has seen the post elsewhere, but this seems the best place for it). The 350 does not seem to have a reputation for faulty injectors, but my car, and the identical temp replacement I currently have are extremely noisy when cold, sounding like a truck, and exhibit a metallic pinking noise when passing between 1500 - 2000 revs under swift, but not hard acceleration. I am sure it did not do this from new, but I did drive a lot with the roof open and stereo up.

I know diesels are noisy when cold, but this is my 3rd merc diesel, (previous 2003 e320, 2006 cls 320), so I do have a reference point. I have compared Jag XF and Audi A5, both extremely quiet and refined from cold.

So would any of you 350 coupe owners out there be willing to turn the stereo and aircon off, start from cold and have a listen to the tickover. When you drive away, squeeze the throttle thru 1500 to 2000 rpm, and see if you get the chatter / pinking. When the engine is fully warm, tickover is quiet and refined, but the chatter, albeit less apparent, is still there.

The car is on its 6th visit to the workshop, merc tec's are trying out new SW and running tests on the injectors.

I have posted a soundfile on a web page so you can listen to it, (wait for a min when you click play, it is a 3 min file and has to buffer up) comments very welcome.

Thank you in anticipation for your help.

My Troubled E350CDI Sport Coupe

 

[Merc Owner 2B]

This is quite a relief having just put a deposit down.
My car is arriving in the UK from the factory on the 18th December - do you reckon it would have v4 or v5 injectors?

Cheers,
Steve

What a great christmas pressie! I can't see them not fitting the new ones. There was talk of delaying orders rather than delivering what would become problems and expense for themselves.

The question I think you should ask is "Will you meet my delivery time?"

Hope all goes well.

 

[w124coupe]

This is quite a relief having just put a deposit down.
My car is arriving in the UK from the factory on the 18th December - do you reckon it would have v4 or v5 injectors?

Cheers,
Steve

If twas me, I would insist on written confirmation before accepting delivery.

 

[mobiledreams12]

If twas me, I would insist on written confirmation before accepting delivery.

You won't get it - and I think it's unreasonable to ask.

Priority for the V5 injectors will given to those who have broken down.

V4 injectors may still be used for factory orders for all we know.

But not really a problem, as if you breakdown say in 3 months time, you'll get the V5 ones. Merc will provide you with a replacement car if you do breakdown, so inconvience is minimized while waiting for your car to be fixed.

I do believe Merc are doing the "right thing" for ALL concerned in this situation they've got themselves into. Which, to be fair, is more the fault of Delphi than Merc.

 

[rothbury]

You won't get it - and I think it's unreasonable to ask.

Priority for the V5 injectors will given to those who have broken down.

V4 injectors may still be used for factory orders for all we know.

But not really a problem, as if you breakdown say in 3 months time, you'll get the V5 ones. Merc will provide you with a replacement car if you do breakdown, so inconvience is minimized while waiting for your car to be fixed.

I do believe Merc are doing the "right thing" for ALL concerned in this situation they've got themselves into. Which, to fair, is more the fault of Delphi than Merc.

Agreed but they could have told everyone the rough percentage chance of falilure which according to the German article is about 25% . Given the feedback on this forum it wouldn't appear to be any worse than that over here

 

[hawk20]

I don't think we can apportion blame without first admitting that we are probably pushing the known limits of diesel technology in order to meet the very demanding requirements from European bureaucrats.

 

[Satch]

I don't think we can apportion blame without first admitting that we are probably pushing the known limits of diesel technology in order to meet the very demanding requirements from European bureaucrats.

And existing diesel fuel technology

".....the potential for negative impact on engine performance, emissions and fuel consumption is increasing, as injector designs become progressively more sophisticated. The Euro 5 type injectors fitted to the Peugeot DW10 2.0 litre engine have 6 injector holes of size 110 microns, which is around the width of two human hairs. Injector holes for Euro 6 designs are predicted to go down to as little as 80 microns, with as many as 24 holes being used. Also contributing to this trend are other engineering factors such as increasing fuel injection pressures and temperatures. Finally, growing levels of biodiesel blending are also likely to increase severity. OEMs will need to know how their equipment behaves with respect to fouling and are keen to understand how different fuels and deposit control additives can control any coking that may occur."

"Extensive test work at Lubrizol has shown that the new DW10 test has a significantly increased detergency requirement compared to the longstanding CEC XUD-9 method, which is based on an older technology indirect injection engine."

CEC DW10 Diesel Fuel Injector Fouling Test - Fuel Additives - The Lubrizol Corporation

Which essentially means if you are running an EU5 engine on cheap diesel that meets the existing but now outdated standards, stop doing so or use an additive like Millers Ecopower to improve detergency.

Those of you who fancy using biofuels containing FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters) might also care to take a squint at this:

http://www.energyinst.org.uk/biofuelsconference2008/presentations/2.pdf

Injector fouling, oil dilution leading to accelerated engine wear and deposits, poor thermal stabilty and storage life plus low temperature solubilty issues.

Lovelystuff, but do not worry 'cos it is GREEN, innit?

 

[w124coupe]

You won't get it - and I think it's unreasonable to ask.

Priority for the V5 injectors will given to those who have broken down.

V4 injectors may still be used for factory orders for all we know.

But not really a problem, as if you breakdown say in 3 months time, you'll get the V5 ones. Merc will provide you with a replacement car if you do breakdown, so inconvience is minimized while waiting for your car to be fixed.

I do believe Merc are doing the "right thing" for ALL concerned in this situation they've got themselves into. Which, to be fair, is more the fault of Delphi than Merc.

With 22.5% failure rate in Germany and a publicised fix available, in my opinion you would be entirely foolish to take a new car without that fix.
(and Merc would be on shaky ground regaridng their Duty of Care)

I have needed Mobilo twice in 4 years for my CDI E class - both times on the motorway - I don't agree with your assessment that going into limp mode in Lane 3 and then waiting 90 mins & 135 mins for recovery and then a trip by truck to a Merc garage to wait again while Enterprise arrive with a hire car is minimal inconvenience.

1 in 4 is far too high a risk to take voluntarily. Why should you?

 

[mobiledreams12]

I have needed Mobilo twice in 4 years for my CDI E class - both times on the motorway - I don't agree with your assessment that going into limp mode in Lane 3 and then waiting 90 mins & 135 mins for recovery and then a trip by truck to a Merc garage to wait again while Enterprise arrive with a hire car is minimal inconvenience.

That is an inconvenience.

But, is it fair that Bob's Merc which has been in the workshop for 2 months doesn't get fixed because Fred's new factory order has had the V5 injectors put in?

I'm trying to think of all concerned. As are Mercedes, I would hope.

 

[w124coupe]

That is an inconvenience.

But, is it fair that Bob's Merc which has been in the workshop for 2 months doesn't get fixed because Fred's new factory order has had the V5 injectors put in?

I'm trying to think of all concerned. As are Mercedes, I would hope.

It wasn't an inconvenience...it was frankly frightening (ECU emergency mode gives you about 35mph max cruising speed and effectively zero acceleration to get across to the hard shoulder).

(My failures were fuel pressure and inlet flap motor. I'm making the assumption based on anecdotal evidence on here that emergency mode is also set when one of four cylinders is lost.)

Total time from failure to onward journey was half a working day each time.

Its now a known problem with a high incidence rate. Merc have a fix and know the both the timescales and available delivery rate for the fix.

Therefore Fred should either get new injectors day1 or a loan car while he waits (just like Bob) - i.e. Merc's inconvenience, not the customer.

He's spending £30k on a premium brand!

 

[rothbury]

I don't think we can apportion blame without first admitting that we are probably pushing the known limits of diesel technology in order to meet the very demanding requirements from European bureaucrats.

Why not ? Were you told anything about this technology before you purchased- I certainly wasn't! I really had little idea that I was personally "pushing the known limits". And even if one had read the Delphi 1 Dec 2008 press release it referred to 100000 hours of testing and 10,000,000 test kilometers in conjunction with Mercedes. So, buying in October 2009 surely should have been fairly risk free shouldn't it.

 

[mobiledreams12]

It wasn't an inconvenience...it was frankly frightening (ECU emergency mode gives you about 35mph max cruising speed and effectively zero acceleration to get across to the hard shoulder).

(My failures were fuel pressure and inlet flap motor. I'm making the assumption based on anecdotal evidence on here that emergency mode is also set when one of four cylinders is lost.)

Total time from failure to onward journey was half a working day each time.

Its now a known problem with a high incidence rate. Merc have a fix and know the both the timescales and available delivery rate for the fix.

Therefore Fred should either get new injectors day1 or a loan car while he waits (just like Bob) - i.e. Merc's inconvenience, not the customer.

He's spending £30k on a premium brand!

I suspect Merc are also thinking about cost. And they have limited number of loan cars. But, you're right, your solution inconveniences customers the least.

 

[jim gardiner]

Got an email from customer services saying blah blah blah, hig standards, blah blah, working on a solution, blah blah, basically saying nuthin, apart from there will be no compensastion offered. Also got a call from the service manager at the dealer, saying, nothing happening, no news, no idea when it will be fixed, also the email from customer services said that the email was the "final" communication from them, gonna explore with the contract hire company the possibilty of rejecting the vehicle.