Blue Efficiency injector recall?

[ddentrec]

While I agree with that sentiment to a point, carried to it's logical conclusion the problems would simply start to manifest themselves later in the launch cycle because no-one was buying/using the earliest production.

Sorry - I didn't make my point clear. What I know is that products with known defects are launched due to cost pressure, and the fixes/improvements are already planned for in the near future. My suggestion is that MB knew about the issue even before the product was launched but they underestimated the public sensitivity to the problem.

How many times do you hear '..the early ones suffered from..', or '..this issue fixed with a later software version/modification..'. etc? Sure some are genuine bug fixes, but other are planned fixes.

 

[johny5_uk]

I wonder how many of these failed injectors are actual faulty injectors or are due to £99 ebay tuning boxes that send way too much fuel pressure through the common rail. Piezo injectors are much more precise than the older ones in the non B/E cars.. and they are less tolerant to big increases in rail pressure.

My C250 has 1400 miles on and is going strong. Picked it up earlier in the month and it is loosening nicely.

I doubt people would be putting those tuning boxes on their nice new Merc's!??
I used to have one on my 6 year old CLK 270 to bump up the fuel economy but the 250CDI is more than economical anyway. I would be very very surprised if anyone is using those boxes, I know I wont use one on my E350 ever (because I bought it new )

 

[w124coupe]

I doubt people would be putting those tuning boxes on their nice new Merc's!??
I used to have one on my 6 year old CLK 270 to bump up the fuel economy but the 250CDI is more than economical anyway. I would be very very surprised if anyone is using those boxes, I know I wont use one on my E350 ever (because I bought it new )

The majority of the plug and play boxes simply sit in-line between fuel rail pressure sensor and ECU. They under-report the fuel pressure so that the ECU increases the injector "open" time to compensate - hence more fuel is delivered to "use up" the excess air typically available in a diesel.

Working this way, they don't increase the fuel pressure but they DO keep the injectors open longer.....

Haven't seen many for the latest CDIs yet?

(My own view is that (some of ) the new injectors are just not up to the job and Merc are, as they always do, minimising cost and keeping customers, and dealers, in the dark).

 

[st13phil]

Sorry - I didn't make my point clear. What I know is that products with known defects are launched due to cost pressure, and the fixes/improvements are already planned for in the near future. My suggestion is that MB knew about the issue even before the product was launched but they underestimated the public sensitivity to the problem.

OK, I understand what you meant - I too appreciate that sometimes new products "escape" rather than being released - but I seriously doubt that any automotive manufacturer would bring a product to market knowing that it was likely to suffer catastrophic failure. To do so would be highly damaging for a non-aspirational brand; for a premium brand such as MB (or BMW, Jaguar, etc) it would be suicidal and the shareholders would, justifiably, look for a few senior heads on sticks.

 

[C240Sport97]

OK, I understand what you meant - I too appreciate that sometimes new products "escape" rather than being released - but I seriously doubt that any automotive manufacturer would bring a product to market knowing that it was likely to suffer catastrophic failure. To do so would be highly damaging for a non-aspirational brand; for a premium brand such as MB (or BMW, Jaguar, etc) it would be suicidal and the shareholders would, justifiably, look for a few senior heads on sticks.

not to mention hideous warranty costs

 

[ddentrec]

not to mention hideous warranty costs

Understood. But ~40% of a vehicle's development cost is in the testing phase: it is the most expensive part of a new car. And warranty costs are not usually borne by the manufacturer anymore: these risks are re-insured to insurance companies to reduce cost. I have worked in vehicle software development and know that sometimes the cost of fixing an issue is deliberately passed further down the chain to someone else. At the end of the day, it is cheaper to do that. The brand will not be damaged: look at MB quality over the past 13 years: its not good, is it? But we still buy the cars and make excuses that MB is still improving. Profits are up, too.

 

[swansea merc]

c250 cdi delph injectors

Hi, 1st time posted anything.

I took delv of my c250 cdi sport estate and within 7 weeks 6000 miles its in the garage, merc have / are in the process of replacing the faulty injector. (car dropped off thursday should pick up on monday)

Should I ask them to replace all injectors?

Is the fault likely rear its ugly head again?

The dealer has managed to replace it within a few days, but did mention they have 8 cars in with the same fault. Some have been waiting over 6 weeks for the parts.

Should I have gone for the 3lt instead?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

P

 

[johny5_uk]

Swansea Merc, check other posts on here, sorry but they wont replace all (well at least they didnt in my case).
I was fuming that when the second injector failed in my E250 coupe I only had the car about 50 days yet 13 of those days it was in the workshop! not a good percentage ratio!
I gave them an ultimatum, change ALL remaining injectors and guarantee it wouldnt breakdown again or give me a full refund so I can buy an E350 with a different known engine.
The second option was agreed very very quickly.

They wont replace all as they cant. I was told 2 reasons, 1st being they need the injectors to fail before they can get a replacement code from Germany for a new one (I suggested that they were economical with the truth but they couldnt do this as it was all electronic info supplied). The 2nd was there just wasnt enough stock to supply anyway. My dealer was even going to buy the injectors in and change them all themselves as they only cost £250 each, a lesser price than what it is costing in logistics of hire cars etc but Mercedes would not supply them due to a shortage.

So, driving my E350 now and have been told the injectors shouldnt fail on this as the tolerances on the 250 are so high this is the reason they are failing.

I hope you get sorted...

 

[alo]

My GLK is now ready, still Delphi parts

I happened to visit the garage yesterday. They had just replace the second failed injector and the remaining two (per my request and after some shouting). The parts are still Delphi injectors as the controlling box is also made by Delphi. I really hope that the quality is now better. But I fear that in the future, they have to replace all Delphi systems with Bosch ones. We will see.

As for you question: I would demand replacing all injectors. It would seem logical that the new parts are better and it is silly to leave potentially breaking parts in you car, especially when the process takes about a week per garage visit. If they stocked the parts in each country, the repair time could be just one day.

By the way, the process of changing the injectors involves entering a 24 letter/digi code printed on top of the injector to the computer which adjusts the controlling box to adapt to each injectors characteristics. In the garagae here, this was totally manual, two guys spelling codes aloud. The official process might involve using 2D barcodes on top of the injectors.

I am still quite angry because of the stupidity of Daimler AG for using inferior parts, especially if t{he rumour I heard is correct: An engineer at Daimler disagreed on using French Delphi parts just for costs saving.

 

[TallGirl]

Apologies if I repeat anything, in a bit of a rush and haven't had time to read through the whole thread but the info I've been given on these (how reliable it is I dont know but its a trustworthy source) and it is that essentially it's not a case of "if" the injectors will pack in, but more "when".

I've been told it's inevitable and that they're supposedly stopping production of the blueefficiency cars in the mean time which does make sense because I cant source a 220 or 250 for love nor money at this moment in time...

If a car is brought in with injector problems under warranty and has two sets of replacements and they pack in, game over... they wont fit any more. But the current plan of action and what they intend to do? I'm unsure.

I was told that the company who makes the injectors has gone under and left mercedes in a bit of a pickle and hence why they're struggling to rectify this quickly and easily and are trying their best to keep it under wraps. It does sound like a major f*ck up on someones behalf but I think currently like anything and potentially the info I've been relayed from my contact, so much of it may just be speculation and chinese whispers.

Scream, scream, scream! I've just got my new C220 cdi and guess what it broke down on the 7th day! So, have I got more of this to com ?MB still haven't fully explained what was wrong, only that a 'special' part has been fitted! Not only that my car was kindly returned to me with the front bumper scraped and MB tell me they didn't do it - yet my breakdown paperwork clearly indicates 'no marks'. What's going on??? Thanks for the info Tilly, looks like I've got a bumpy road ahead! Not a happy bunny - why do they happily sell duff cars without mentioning known issues?

 

[corned]

Hi TallGirl. Welcome to the show!

This is beginning to sound like a full-scale epidemic. Maybe finally the beancounters at Stuttgart are going to get put back in their box, to some extent at least. What a PR disaster for MB.

Regardless of the issue with whatever failed (I would demand they give you a full explanation of what was replaced and why), I would also be demanding that they remedy the bumper problem as well. The 'no marks' transportation documentation is your starting place. I think if it were me, I would be threatening to demand they take the car back for a full refund. Hopefully that will open their eyes.

Good luck. And good luck to all on this thread with the injector issue.

I'm beginning to think that 'blue' efficiency was a poor choice of colour. How about 'lemon'?

 

[w124coupe]

The "change one injector and whack it back on the road" approach is an interesting risk on their part - if someone then breaks down in a dangerous place and is injured they would be in deep poo if it could be shown they were aware of significant risk of failure and didn't warn the owner.

Maybe this is why SOME dealers seem to be holding onto the failed cars instead?

I suspect the willingness to take cars back for a refund when pressed is to avoid the publicity if a disgruntled owner takes the Consumer Direct route based on "fit for purpose" under SOGA and the issue goes more public.

(I hope the "scraped bumper" issue above doesn't turn into another "the breakdown company is not our Agent" case....leaving the owner to chase the grey area between dealer and Mobilo recovery company)

 

[st4]

Case and point for blue effiency buyers to get a V6 diesel....or BUY a used 220cdi pre blue efficiency 204 C class with the injectors that DONT fail. Thats progress for you, the 220cdi engine was always a reliable lump and an industry favourite, and because of duff componentry is reduced to a lay by favourite

 

[jim gardiner]

Well thats 5 weeks today mine has been in the garage, and still no end in sight, i'm told that enterprise are billing MB £65 + VAT per day for car hire, i reckon between that and recovery etc, prob bout £3k so far, and the hire has been extended till 23rd Dec !!!!!

 

[rothbury]

Hi, 1st time posted anything.

I took delv of my c250 cdi sport estate and within 7 weeks 6000 miles its in the garage, merc have / are in the process of replacing the faulty injector. (car dropped off thursday should pick up on monday)

Should I ask them to replace all injectors?

Is the fault likely rear its ugly head again?

The dealer has managed to replace it within a few days, but did mention they have 8 cars in with the same fault. Some have been waiting over 6 weeks for the parts.

Should I have gone for the 3lt instead?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

P

This is getting very worrying. The fact that we are all driving around not knowing when or where we are going to breakdown is not acceptable.
i went to bristol yesterday on the M4 in torrential rain and the thought of having to wait on the hard shoulder ..... well! Can anyone say what actually happens when the injector fails- does it produce a dangerous situation like a huge loss of power?
Maybe we should have a poll from all new owners so that we have an idea of the percentage likelihood of failure. I have asked my dealer for national figures but he has yet to come back to me.
I have been considering the matter from a legal point of view( I am a solicitor) but there is not enough to go on yet unless the percentage of failures is high and there is a real chance of getting into a dangerous situation from the failure

 

[w124coupe]

I have been considering the matter from a legal point of view( I am a solicitor) but there is not enough to go on yet unless the percentage of failures is high and there is a real chance of getting into a dangerous situation from the failure

How about if/when they send you back on the road having changed just 1 injector (from their position of knowledge re the rate of failure and therefore likelihood of another breakdown)?

 

[Uberwagon]

A mistake like this is very easy to occur.

I wont name the manufacturer but an idler gear brought in by a third party was being machined a certain way all during the test phase. This was then changed to use a harder wearing tool to machine the bearing.

The resultant warranty claims were horrendous and pretty much all the profit from the engine was lost.

It's easy to happen, it's how Mercedes deal with the problem that will mark them out as good or bad. At the end of the day they can't magic injectors or replacement cars from thin air.

Dave!

 

[rothbury]

How about if/when they send you back on the road having changed just 1 injector (from their position of knowledge re the rate of failure and therefore likelihood of another breakdown)?

yes I agree but we need to know the rate of failure and therefore the likelihood.
Can anyone please desrcribe exactly what happens when they fail ?

 

[Dryce]

i'm told that enterprise are billing MB £65 + VAT per day for car hire,

That'll be the published rate.

MB should be doing rather better than that unless there's something funny or just plain stupid going on.

 

[st13phil]

...does it produce a dangerous situation like a huge loss of power?

According to the Auto Motor und Sport article I linked to in post #2 of this thread, in Germany Mercedes-Benz are not running a recall campaign for this because "it is dealing with a convenience and not a safety issue", and I would expect MB worldwide to take the same stance. If it were deemed to be a safety issue then there would be a mandatory safety recall on the affected vehicles.