The EV fact thread

[Bellow]

Then, they don't get one, then. Simple's.

Pointlessly glib. What's he supposed to do for reliable transportation when ICE is no longer permitted to be sold?

 

[BTB 500]

To bellow's point - if you're stranded, you're stranded... how complicated or expensive the repair will be once the car has been towed to the dealer, is another matter.

I think that's the main concern private owners (current or prospective) have though, when talking about battery longevity. Not the fact that a 9 year old car might have lost a bit of range.

 

[SmartAmg]

Pointlessly glib. What's he supposed to do for reliable transportation when ICE is no longer permitted to be sold?

Worry about that in Ten years time. If indeed new ICE cars do ever get banned. Plus there will still be thousands upon thousands of used ICE vehicle's to choose from. Not pointlessly glib. To many people who don't like EVs, worrying about and commenting on EVs. As I've said don't get one then. ICE cars will still be around for a long, long time yet.

 

[markjay]

OK, 'stranded' is lazy shorthand for 'breakdown'. The difference between ICE and EV breakdown is the ensuing cost. Being stranded is an inconvenience for sure, a five figure sum for a battery repair will be catastrophic for many. Not even complete engine failure (this side of exotica) with ICE gets close to the cost of replacing a battery.

Granted, but surely that's only an issue if your EV is no longer under manufacturers warranty?

Mi Hyundai came with 8 years warranty for the battery. Kia offers the same. As does Tesla. I'm sure other manufacturers also offer long warranty for their HV batteries

So you're OK to own an EV now? As long as it's under 8 years old, your worried are unfounded

 

[BIGDOG]

Why ? It's really a political thread - and where there are advocates then there are those who might question the advocacy. And advocates uncomfortable with any attempt to moderate, mitigate, or even contradict their views will determine that those doing the moderation, mitigation, or contradiction and detractors or even haters.

No, it’s a car thread.

It’s actually quite bonkers that ‘some’ people view cars as political.

 

[BTB 500]

Granted, but surely that's only an issue if your EV is no longer under manufacturers warranty?

Mi Hyundai came with 8 years warranty for the battery. Kia offers the same. As does Tesla. I'm sure other manufacturers also offer long warranty for their HV batteries

So you're OK to own an EV now? As long as it's under 8 years old, your worried are unfounded

Lots of people drive cars that are more than 8 years old. The average age has been steadily increasing for some time:



Average car age in 2024 is likely to be 10 years or so.

The breakdown of the 2023 data from the SMMT shows that close to 50% of cars on the road then were over 10 years old ... well outside any manufacturer's battery warranty:

 

[ChrisPDuck]

I always knew I was above average

My five vehicles average nearly 26 years old. It’s my way of doing my bit for the planet!

 

[ChrisPDuck]

It was almost 29 years until I splashed out on my ‘new’ 2010 S212

 

[markjay]

Lots of people drive cars that are more than 8 years old. The average age has been steadily increasing for some time:

View attachment 161836

Average car age in 2024 is likely to be 10 years or so.

The breakdown of the 2023 data from the SMMT shows that close to 50% of cars on the road then were over 10 years old ... well outside any manufacturer's battery warranty:

View attachment 161837

So if you're concerned about reliability... and don't want to get stranded... or have to pay for expensive repairs.... then you should buy an old car? This makes no sense to me.

 

[markjay]

But none of this matters. Those who come up with 'reasons' why not to buy an EV, will continue to come up with reasons why not to buy an EV.... ad Infinitum.

 

[BTB 500]

So if you're concerned about reliability... and don't want to get stranded... or have to pay for expensive repairs.... then you should buy an old car? This makes no sense to me.

8 or 9 years isn't old for an ICE vehicle though. I have a 27 year old car and a 17 year old van ... pretty unlikely an EV would get that far without needing a new battery pack (which would likely have written it off). As mentioned almost 50% of cars on the road in the UK are at least 10 years old. These are mostly owned by people who simply can't afford newer vehicles, but by and large they provide perfectly reliable transport.

But none of this matters. Those who come up with 'reasons' why not to buy an EV, will continue to come up with reasons why not to buy an EV.... ad Infinitum.

This was simply about the statement from What Car? that one Model S losing 8% of capacity in 9 years proved that all concerns about EV battery longevity were unjustified. This is clearly ridiculous, but if you get a new car every 3 years (or even every 8 years ... assuming the company that made it is still around and in a position to honour the warranty) it's obviously not a reason to avoid buying an EV.

 

[markjay]

...assuming the company that made it is still around and in a position to honour the warranty....

Seriously?

How many times in recent memory did a major car manufacture go out of business and left UK owners without a warranty?

1. Rover
2. ....?

 

[Dryce]

No, it’s a car thread.

It’s actually quite bonkers that ‘some’ people view cars as political.

It's a political thread. It should be a car thread.

But the underlying fact is that the EV market is disproportionately driven by politicians and tax incentives/subsidies and legislation and restrictions and green policy.

 

[Dryce]

How many times in recent memory did a major car manufacture go out of business and left UK owners without a warranty?

It's unlikely.

But that said the large manufacturers are uniquely exposed at the moment - so "recent memory" may not be a good reference for what might actually happen.

Back in the 1980s Pentax and Olympus were very strong in the consumer SLR market. Modern autofocus systems appeared in the mid to late eighties. These two companies were left well behind as Canon, Nikon, and Minolta committed and moved forward with the new generation AF SLRs.

This is the sort of company eclipsing technology shift that is facing the likes of VAG, Mercedes, Ford, et al.

 

[Steveml63]

It's unlikely.

But that said the large manufacturers are uniquely exposed at the moment - so "recent memory" may not be a good reference for what might actually happen.

Back in the 1980s Pentax and Olympus were very strong in the consumer SLR market. Modern autofocus systems appeared in the mid to late eighties. These two companies were left well behind as Canon, Nikon, and Minolta committed and moved forward with the new generation AF SLRs.

This is the sort of company eclipsing technology shift that is facing the likes of VAG, Mercedes, Ford, et al.

Agreed!
Just look at the fortunes of Kodak - from 35mm filmmaker to digital camera oblivion!
Look at Nokia - once iPhone & Android phones hit the market
Look at traditional taxi firms once Uber emerged as a modern alternative.
Look at Blockbuster video stores once online streaming platforms took off
Look at expensive air travel once the likes of Easyjet & Our Lady air took off - literally!
As a kid I remember catchy adverts for “Esso blue” paraffin for heaters - not any more!
The list goes on!

Look at legacy automakers - if they do not adapt to the new political, technical & social landscape - they will either make the necessary changes or they will wither away.

 

[zipdip]

Well I look in to this thread very now and then,I will never buy a EV, but the thread is interesting because everybody seems to be in agreement even the EV owners on here that it is subsidies that are driving the EV market,that cannot continue and Germany has cracked first and removed them.
We have also had a number of posts about Hydrogen in cars,I had a slight connection to this at Fords they had a section and produced some cars powered by Hydrogen,I never felt their heart was in it,as I remember the Hyrogen was at around 8000 psi in the cars tank,that should be a bit interesting for the DIY mechanic,I suppose the same can be said for working on a EV the ordinary punter is at some risk.
Still on the Hydrogen powered cars,I am sure I read that Shell had removed the 16 Hydrogen pumps they had in the UK,and people think charging up a EV is difficult,I drove a GM Vectra on LPG for 3 years and that was without problems,there were enough filling stations and the range was enough around 200 miles as I remember,of course you had petrol in the tank to get you out of trouble,but I never had to use it,only problem in very cold weather was that the Shell garage lpg used to freeze in the pipe.
We have a brand new EV station where I live it has taken over 12 parking spaces in a large retail car park it is branded PO Go Charge a attractive colour scheme of pink and grey,it has been built for the last 3 months and the bags covering the chargers are still on it seems abandoned before it even started,the number of EV's around here is very small maybe they had to build it to meet some target I have no idea this whole EV situation is in my opinion very fragile.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Worry about that in Ten years time. If indeed new ICE cars do ever get banned. Plus there will still be thousands upon thousands of used ICE vehicle's to choose from. Not pointlessly glib. To many people who don't like EVs, worrying about and commenting on EVs. As I've said don't get one then. ICE cars will still be around for a long, long time yet.

Tens of millions.

But agreed, as always with the EU, we know that their regulation will be both softened, and delayed.

And that the other 85 % of the world outside of China and Europe is retreating as fast as their Internal Combustion Engines will carry them

 

[BIGDOG]

It's a political thread. It should be a car thread.

But the underlying fact is that the EV market is disproportionately driven by politicians and tax incentives/subsidies and legislation and restrictions and green policy.

https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/the-uk-politics-brexit-thread.215550/

 

[markjay]

But the underlying fact is that the EV market is disproportionately driven by politicians and tax incentives/subsidies and legislation and restrictions and green policy.

True, just like many other markets. What's the issue, though? Thats why we have governments, no?

 

[BTB 500]

Seriously?

How many times in recent memory did a major car manufacture go out of business and left UK owners without a warranty?

1. Rover
2. ....?

People will also be buying EVs from much smaller companies though, some of which are not much more than startups. The chance of all of them surviving the next 10 years is probably zero. Do you know how financially sound the various Chinese companies selling EVs into the UK are - MG, BYD, GWM, Xpeng, Omoda etc? We've already seen Polestar in trouble, and they had pretty solid backing. BMW, Mercedes and VW aren't doing particularly well at the moment either!

The other issue as technology advances is whether batteries will actually be available for warranty repairs on 8 year old models. We've already seen some issues with new cars from major manufacturers - we don't know how this one ended, but after 3 months MB still hadn't been able to fix an EQC that had only covered 1000 miles:

A

Thread 'EQC High Voltage Battery Failure'

Jun 20, 2024

So, back in April I took the plunge and leased a pre registered EQC 400 AMG Line Edition through MB Finance. We chose to lease rather than buy with the uncertainty of the EV project and felt the lease enables me to test the water so to speak. Well, the EQC was a genuine WOW moment and the nighttime charging at 7.5 ppkwh makes the 400BHP monster cheap as chips to run. After around 3 weeks and 1000 miles my wife received a text message from MB saying there was a high voltage battery fault. Strange as we’d used the car the day before and the display showed around 60% battery charge and we...

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