The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

So many Tory lies. It is being restricted to pensionrs in receipt of certain means tested benefits , not 'cancelled for everyone'.

It's being taken away from 10 million pensioners, with the number of people receiving it dropping from 11.5 million to 1.5 million.

That's the reason why pensioners describe it as being "cancelled for everyone."

Ten million people are losing it.

And why do pensioners not matter to Labour? Because only 20% of the over 70's voted Labour in 2024. "Stuff 'em"

BTW two thirds of all pensioners pay income tax.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Don't worry, the current Labour administration won't do anything meaningful regarding reform of the State Pension provisions either because it falls into the "problem too difficult" pile.

The reality is that as it's an unfunded scheme it is unsustainable in its current form due to demographic changes, but it's politically toxic to either publicly admit that or to open meaningful discussions about how to address it. So the can will get kicked down the road once again, and will continue to be kicked down the road until the crisis hits.

And ditto Social care.

With people living longer but now with chronic health problems, there's an increased need to care services - from the routine to advanced dementia.

Everyone knows it, but no-one's prepared to face the issue of how these costs will be funded.

Those horrible Tories were about to introduce a cap of £86,000 on the amount that anyone would pay on the cost of their social care. What have Labour done? They've cancelled the exercise, so there is no cap on how much a family might have to pay on social care / care homes. (All assuming that the individual has no personal wealth in the first place)

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9315/

 

[st13phil]

With people living longer but now with chronic health problems, there's an increased need to care services - from the routine to advanced dementia.

To give some examples in that respect, if you're privately funding residential care (i.e. there's no nursing element to it) then think in terms of around £1,500 per week as a cost mid-point; add in dementia care and you're typically north of £2k per week.

For reference, you can claim Pension Credit (the gateway qualification benefit for many pensioners) if your weekly income is less than £218.15 as a single person.

Scary? You bet.

 

[TC350]

So many Tory lies. It is being restricted to pensionrs in receipt of certain means tested benefits , not 'cancelled for everyone'.

mattc fell into the seemingly modern trait of using the word “everyone” when really meaning a significant majority.

He should have been more accurate for you and said that the Winter Fuel Payment is being withdrawn for over 87% of pensioners.

To my mind, that’s a lot closer to “everyone” than where it’s used in phrases like “Everyone wants tickets to see Oasis.”

 

[DSM10000]

You said it's Tory hypocrisy that " Kemi Badenoch called for rich pensioners to be stripped of winter fuel payments at her Tory leadership campaign launch two years ago, despite recently criticising the Government's cuts to the benefit. Mrs Badenoch, the Tory shadow communities secretary - who is running for the leadership again this year - argued in 2022 that the benefit should be "means-tested"."

I pointed out that it isn't hypocrisy to say the same things twice.

You would have to be an idiot to think that Gordon Brown (net worth well over £10 million), and Tony Blair (net worth well over £40 million) should be automatic recipients of a £400 winter fuel allowance

Should the 11,500,000 recipients of Winter Fuel Allowance be "means-tested ?" Only if you want to create paperwork for civil service clerks and opportunities for fraud. If you're going to pass out £4.6 billion of tax payers' money, just use the the tax system to pull back a percentage when given to people with a taxable income.

You can explain it to some on here you may not understand it for them!

 

[TC350]

"I am not particularly impressed by what I have seen of the workings of the inquiry so far, and I cannot share the warm words that I have heard earlier today. The inquiry’s conduct so far seems to have lacked something, both in seriousness and in real intellectual curiosity about the pandemic."

I think this comment from Lord Frost in the House yesterday after the publication of the first interim report of the ongoing Covid-19 Inquiry is worth a read as it pretty accurately sums up much that is wrong about such inquiries (imo, of course):

https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2024-09-03/debates/42A05971-118A-4877-A8ED-7D1AEC54F5F2/Covid-19Inquiry#contribution-B1D6ED44-77BD-444E-B145-C7C8952BDDD5

Please don't turn this into a re-hash of the interminable debates around the response to the pandemic at the time as that will undoubtedly get this thread closed. Instead, please keep any comment and or debate to the narrow topic of the effectiveness (or otherwise) of such Public Inquiries.

As far as I can tell, Public Inquiries are little more than box ticking exercises so that public administrations can say that they’ve followed up on incidents. As Lord Frost said in the Hansard piece (a good read), inquiries and their reports are of little use without positive and realistic consequential action.

 

[John N]

View attachment 160761

At least you can laugh about three of them!

 

[st13phil]

Having given the matter some thought, I've reached the conclusion that Ed Miliband is totally delusional to the extent that he actually believes the complete and utter nonsense that he spouts about "green energy" and should therefore be sent to a secure sanitorium for his own, and everyone else's, safety. Either that or he is, without question, the most dishonest politician we've had to endure in office in living memory. And that's quite an achievement.

 

[John N]

To give some examples in that respect, if you're privately funding residential care (i.e. there's no nursing element to it) then think in terms of around £1,500 per week as a cost mid-point; add in dementia care and you're typically north of £2k per week.

For reference, you can claim Pension Credit (the gateway qualification benefit for many pensioners) if your weekly income is less than £218.15 as a single person.

Scary? You bet.

I paid £1600 for my Mother for a week so we could have a weeks respite, that was with en-suite toilet, but communal showers, work it out: £83,000 per year!

 

[st13phil]

Oh, the irony...

"Joachim Stamp, Germany's Special Representative for Migration Agreements, said the EU could utilize existing asylum facilities in Rwanda, which were initially intended for Britain's 2022 plan to send unauthorized migrants to the East African nation. The British plan was scrapped by Keir Starmer's new government in July."​

Germany's migration commissioner proposes Rwanda migrant deportation plan

But, but, but, Starmer KC insists that it would be illegal "under international law" for the UK to do it

 

[st13phil]

It's just been announced that France has a new Prime Minister after weeks of wrangling and deadlock.

Macron has appointed none other than former Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier as his new PM.

That should help Starmer KC's "EU relationship reset" no end

I can hear the pearl-clutching screams from lots of celebrities already...

 

[Harrythedog]

I don’t agree with the assumption that pensioners are powerless. Imagine if they all turned up at their banks on Monday morning asking for their money out?
Ask Northern Rock and Gordon Brown how that worked out for them.

 

[John N]

I don’t agree with the assumption that pensioners are powerless. Imagine if they all turned up at their banks on Monday morning asking for their money out?
Ask Northern Rock and Gordon Brown how that worked out for them.

Who would be cast as George Bailey?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Having given the matter some thought, I've reached the conclusion that Ed Miliband is totally delusional to the extent that he actually believes the complete and utter nonsense that he spouts about "green energy" and should therefore be sent to a secure sanitorium for his own, and everyone else's, safety. Either that or he is, without question, the most dishonest politician we've had to endure in office in living memory. And that's quite an achievement.

It’s a vision thing

Like Al Gore

Blind to his own distortion

But hey, he’s a politician. Like Jeremy Corbyn and Neil Kinnock, he’s never had to actually run a chip shop.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Strange how the Tories suddenly seem to give a toss about pensioners now that they are no longer in a position to help them.

Well, Pensioners can already see that claim is a load of spherical objects.

And the Chancellor hasn’t even started on the whole national ULEZ extension thing, increased fuel and road fund taxes and motorway tolls, let alone means testing of the State pension, removal of pension tax breaks, increased Council taxes, inheritance taxation, CGT and increases on alcohol taxes.

There’s much wailing down at the CIU

 

[TC350]

Oh, the irony...

"Joachim Stamp, Germany's Special Representative for Migration Agreements, said the EU could utilize existing asylum facilities in Rwanda, which were initially intended for Britain's 2022 plan to send unauthorized migrants to the East African nation. The British plan was scrapped by Keir Starmer's new government in July."​

Germany's migration commissioner proposes Rwanda migrant deportation plan

But, but, but, Starmer KC insists that it would be illegal "under international law" for the UK to do it

I thought it was known all around the world that international law only applies to the UK.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Already being plotted across the EU

“The Italian interior minister, Matteo Piantedosi, his Austrian and Czech counterparts, Gerhard Karner and Vit Rakusan, as well as the Dutch immigration minister, Eric van der Burg, made the trip. Belgium, Germany and Sweden were represented by their secretaries of state for immigration.“

Immigration: Denmark again contemplates outsourcing asylum procedures to third countries

Representatives of several European governments met in Denmark on Monday to discuss partnerships with third countries, with the aim of reducing immigration to Europe.

www.lemonde.fr

 

[Harrythedog]

Already being plotted across the EU

“The Italian interior minister, Matteo Piantedosi, his Austrian and Czech counterparts, Gerhard Karner and Vit Rakusan, as well as the Dutch immigration minister, Eric van der Burg, made the trip. Belgium, Germany and Sweden were represented by their secretaries of state for immigration.“

Immigration: Denmark again contemplates outsourcing asylum procedures to third countries

Representatives of several European governments met in Denmark on Monday to discuss partnerships with third countries, with the aim of reducing immigration to Europe.

www.lemonde.fr

Will that stop the French outsourcing to us?

 

[AMGeed]

Well, Pensioners can already see that claim is a load of spherical objects.

And the Chancellor hasn’t even started on the whole national ULEZ extension thing, increased fuel and road fund taxes and motorway tolls, let alone means testing of the State pension, removal of pension tax breaks, increased Council taxes, inheritance taxation, CGT and increases on alcohol taxes.

There’s much wailing down at the CIU

I wonder how many Labour voters realised this was on the cards when they voted on July 4th.
Very few I'd wager.
I'll say it again, a large proportion of Labour voters have never been subjected to a Labour government until now.
I wonder how they'll vote in 5 years time.

The higher proportion of over 60's voting Tory should be telling. They have lived through failed Labour governments in the past.
Had it not been the fall out from the Covid-19 debacles, I see no reason why BJ would not still be leading the party and still in Government.

 

[JHS]

Aren’t they trying to pull back on that with the raise in pensions?

A big chunk of the increase will be swallowed in tax.