The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[TC350]

It is interesting that nothing was said about Chris Kaba himself - how he ended up driving a car that was (allegedly) involved in a shooting two days earlier, was he affiliated with criminal gangs or had pervious arrests or convictions, etc - I guess that the jury would not have been allowed to hear that, which is understandable.

The reason that I say that it is 'understandable', is that the armed police offer could not have known any of it when pulling the trigger, and therefore what matters to the case is the police officer's frame of mind at the time, based on the information that was available to him.

The police officer may not have known that Kaba was affiliated with violent criminal gangs, but he would have known that the vehicle was suspected of being involved in a shooting - or why else was he as an armed officer sent to apprehend the driver? So he knew that there was a chance of the driver being armed, and from first encounter that the driver was willing to try anything to avoid capture.

 

[markjay]

The police officer may not have known that Kaba was affiliated with violent criminal gangs, but he would have known that the vehicle was suspected of being involved in a shooting - or why else was he as an armed officer sent to apprehend the driver? So he knew that there was a chance of the driver being armed, and from first encounter that the driver was willing to try anything to avoid capture.

I think that you could well argue that the fact the car was flagged-up as involved in a shooting two days earlier meant that police had to proceed with caution, however it is far from certain that the person who is currently driving it was involved in the crime. He may have borrowed the car from a friend or relative, or the car may have been cloned, etc.

And so, I think that it is fair to judge the police officer's actions based only on the risk that the driver posed to him and to the other officers at that point of time, rather than on the driver's (unknown) background.

In order for Chris Kaba to be considered as a person posing a risk in these circumstances beyond his manner of driving, the police officers would need to have reason to suspect that he was armed - the fact that he was driving the car that he did isn't in itself reason enough to suspect that he possessed a weapon and justify the use of lethal force.

That been said, now that the facts are in the public domain, I am really puzzled as to why the CPS pursued the case - it seems to me like an open-and-shut case - and not just to me, but clearly also to the jury who delivered their verdict in 3 hours (including tea and biscuits and some polite chatter).

 

[st13phil]

but he would have known that the vehicle was suspected of being involved in a shooting - or why else was he as an armed officer sent to apprehend the driver? So he knew that there was a chance of the driver being armed

^ This.

Armed Response officers wouldn't have been involved in the stop as a matter of routine, they would have been present either due to intelligence regarding the vehicle / occupants (most likely), or (very unlikely) just because they happened to be close by. In the event of the latter, they would have been alerted to the suspicions relating to the vehicle / occupants before executing the stop for reasons of their own safety.

On the subject of the threats to police officer Martyn Blake and his family, it's worth remembering that it was Kaba's family who campaigned extensively (and ultimately, successfully) to have him named instead of him maintaining anonymity as would be normal in cases such as this (for obvious reasons), while simultaneously taking out an injunction to have Chris Kaba’s criminal activities kept private.

 

[markjay]

^ This.

Armed Response officers wouldn't have been involved in the stop as a matter of routine, they would have been present either due to intelligence regarding the vehicle / occupants (most likely), or (very unlikely) just because they happened to be close by. In the event of the latter, they would have been alerted to the suspicions relating to the vehicle / occupants before executing the stop for reasons of their own safety.

On the subject of the threats to police officer Martyn Blake and his family, it's worth remembering that it was Kaba's family who campaigned extensively (and ultimately, successfully) to have him named instead of him maintaining anonymity as would be normal in cases such as this (for obvious reasons), while simultaneously taking out an injunction to have Chris Kaba’s criminal activities kept private.

I have no issues with the family doing their utmost for one of their own, it's their prerogative, but I can't fathom why the justice system played along with it? Their legal action to name the police officer, as understandable as it may be, should have been successfully blocked by the CPS and by the courts.

 

[Darrell]

One more scumbag off the street. The policeman concerned should be given an award.

 

[flying haggis]

I have no issues with the family doing their utmost for one of their own, it's their prerogative, but I can't fathom why the justice system played along with it? Their legal action to name the police officer, as understandable as it may be, should have been successfully blocked by the CPS and by the courts.

And the injunction to hide his criminal past. If he was such a nice guy why did they need an injunction??

 

[st13phil]

but I can't fathom why the justice system played along with it?

Perhaps it's something to do with the Police and Crime Commissioner for London, one Sadiq Khan, who was one of the first out of the blocks in 2022 to express "concerns" over the death of Kaba and "support" for "Black Londoners"?

 

[st13phil]

To avoid the opinions of its 1,500,000 employees ….The NHS invited the general public to give their suggestions for improvement.

Here are a few….

Another goodie:

 

[Darrell]

Perhaps it's something to do with the Police and Crime Commissioner for London, one Sadiq Khan, who was one of the first out of the blocks in 2022 to express "concerns" over the death of Kaba and "support" for "Black Londoners"?

I was reading about the protests on line last night and of course the Black Lives Matters crowd were there sticking there noses in.

Sasha Johnson shooting: Case against four men collapses

 

[m80]

I have no issues with the family doing their utmost for one of their own,

Sort of, maybe. But at the conclusion they should pay for the debacle if the victim was ultimately not an innocent victim of circumstances.

, but I can't fathom why the justice system played along with it?

In the public interest, we are now aware that any doubt as to this being a police assassination is removed.

Their legal action to name the police officer, as understandable as it may be, should have been successfully blocked by the CPS and by the courts.

Agreed.
Till proven not to be innocent at least.

On this occasion it looks like 'good shot' is appropriate.

 

[Bellow]

A vehicle can be disabled without having to shoot its driver dead.

 

[mattc]

A vehicle can be disabled without having to shoot its driver dead.

And what would you like the police to carry that they can down a car. An old school Carl Gustav 84mm?

The guy was a wrong un and made an exceedingly poor decision when faced with armed police... I've no sympathy for him whatsoever and I suspect a great many others will go "oh dear, never mind"

 

[m80]

And what would you like the police to carry that they can down a car. An old school Carl Gustav 84mm?

The guy was a wrong un and made an exceedingly poor decision when faced with armed police... I've no sympathy for him whatsoever and I suspect a great many others will go "oh dear, never mind"

Would it be churlish of the police to raise an invoice for the bullet?

 

[Darrell]

A vehicle can be disabled without having to shoot its driver dead.

It can. But the driver can’t.

 

[DSM10000]

A vehicle can be disabled without having to shoot its driver dead.

Depending on circumstances, yes.

A driver can also stop to be questioned without trying to use a vehicle to ram his way out and endanger others.

That vehicle had already been reported as having been involved in a shooting incident the day before.

The driver deliberately attempted to ram other vehicles out of the way when challenged.

 

[mattc]

Would it be churlish of the police to raise an invoice for the bullet?

Perhaps they could raise the invoice but just put FOC in the value column

 

[Bellow]

And what would you like the police to carry that they can down a car. An old school Carl Gustav 84mm?

The guy was a wrong un and made an exceedingly poor decision when faced with armed police... I've no sympathy for him whatsoever and I suspect a great many others will go "oh dear, never mind"

Summary execution in the street then.

 

[DSM10000]

Summary execution in the street then.

That is just ridiculous and inflammatory.

The Police challenged the driver, he then tried to ram his way out endangering others.

His actions led to his death.

 

[Bellow]

Depending on circumstances, yes.

A driver can also stop to be questioned without trying to use a vehicle to ram his way out and endanger others.

That vehicle had already been reported as having been involved in a shooting incident the day before.

The driver deliberately attempted to ram other vehicles out of the way when challenged.

Resisting arrest is nothing new and in this country does not constitute a reason to shoot dead.
The vehicle could have been disabled and there was already a police helicopter in the air. The reason given for his shooting was not to apprehend the suspect but for the safety of the officers - from getting hit with an (already constrained) vehicle (which never exceeded 12mph).
There was no firearm in the vehicle and both of the driver's hand were visible and empty at the time of the shooting.

 

[John N]

In the ever-growing public sector, obviously.

And where will the money to pay public sector wages come from? It will come from borrowing and from printing money quantitive easing, while blaming "14 years of Tory rule" for all eternity.

TCH, you forgot to mention the "Black Hole"